028. Jumping Into Nothingness And Trying to Figure It Out Yet Again: Katy Garroway's Journey of Service [Part 2]

Welcome back to Part 2 of our extraordinary series with Katy Garroway! In this  episode, we continue to follow Katy's  journey from the fire service to the frontlines of humanitarian efforts in war-torn Afghanistan.

🌍 Join host TJ as we delve deep into the heart of Katy's story. Discover how her courage led her to leave the fire service behind, embarking on a mission to evacuate over 3000 people from the tumultuous landscapes of Afghanistan.

🔥 Listen in awe as she recounts the trials and triumphs of aiding families in their quest for safety and freedom, ultimately helping them find new homes in the United States.

🤝 We explore the power of community, resilience, and unwavering commitment to our fellow human beings. Katy's experiences unveil a profound commitment to the potential for positive change, even in the most challenging circumstances.

🛤️ As we journey alongside Katy through her life-changing experiences, we witness the incredible impact that one individual can have on the lives of many. Her story is a testament to the enduring spirit of service that knows no borders.

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Transcript

Katy: It's a very, you know, one of the first questions people usually ask me when they find out prior experience, which I don't even like saying. I don't think, you know, four or five years is all that much experience, but they're like, what do you do? Do you like it here? What's different? I'm like, it feels different.

Katy: It was a tough crowd out there. It's a tough crowd.

TJ: Very,

Katy: Very good old boys club. I didn't go in with, you know, coming into this department, having already been through a two year probationary period. Like I kind of knew what I was doing, but showing up to that probation. I didn't know, I didn't know what I was doing.

Katy: I come from a culture in the military where you don't speak unless you're spoken to nobody ever said the, Hey, go in and introduce yourself to everyone. So I didn't, I didn't do that. Nobody told me to do that. So I, that translated, I'm sure into like. Oh, nice check.

TJ: Yeah, she's a bitch.

Katy: Ouch. Um, but that's just how I, again, in the military, you, to me, and I, you know, everyone's military experience is different, but we were a very, you know, you don't talk to people unless they talk to you, especially people in charge of you.

Katy: So I don't know. It, it was tough to navigate. Um. it was a tough area with a, with a tough crowd to get acclimated to. And nobody, nobody really spoke to me for a year on a fire ground, 

TJ: what it was, 

Katy: was, and I, I later asked them about it and they were like, yeah, we just had to make sure you didn't stick around. I was like, that's safe guys.

Katy: Cool.

TJ: That is.

Katy: But I, not my shift, my shift was great. I, you know, I still, my medic is still one of my favorite people. Uh, Around so I love her and I had a great lieutenant great captain great specialist all of it great. Oh my god My driver forget it. Um legend, but it was a good time out there. Um,

TJ: that leads me to

Katy: Why did you leave

TJ: Well, not quite. No, no, no. Because

Katy: Because

TJ: a woman in the military

TJ: in one of the toughest branches, arguably,

Katy: And 

TJ: And then going into the fire service also a place that can be very 

Katy: misogynistic 

TJ: Yeah, I was going to say sexist, but I like that word way better.

TJ: Can You tell me about that like any I'm sure there were conflicts. I'm sure there were, like, bumps on the road. How was it? How was that process? It's, I think it's important to highlight that because we have a lot.

TJ: of female firefighters.

Katy: Yeah. 

TJ: And we as men don't experience 90 percent of the stuff that they go through. Right. Because you don't introduce yourself, now you're a bitch.

TJ: It doesn't matter that you're good on the fire ground. Suddenly, That is what counts. We don't have

TJ: that extra stigma, that extra expectation.

TJ: If I don't talk,

TJ: The amount of times that I got told this rookie, shut the fuck up, And speak when spoken to, complete polar opposites of what you experience. of Like, why aren't you talking to people? And I've talked to other female firefighters who the same thing.

TJ: Oh, she doesn't talk to people. Oh, she doesn't say hello. She's not like super nice So it's therefore She must be a bitch. Meanwhile, she could be Tommy Gavin in the flesh, eating smoke, pulling babies, one by one. And, That's the 

Katy: totally not who I am, but

TJ: no not Tommy Gavin

Katy: I, you know, it's, it's always tough for me personally to navigate that question.

Katy: And I think

TJ: That's why I

Katy: this, I think the answer is almost so because it's all I know, I don't want to sound like, Oh, well, so hard for me because it's all I've experienced. It's normal to me. So when people are like, oh, how is it being a girl in the or a woman? I'm sorry. I'm gonna say girl cuz that's just You know, how is it being a girl in the military?

Katy: And I'm like, I don't know I've only been I've only ever been a girl in the military So I can't tell you what it's like to be a girl in the military versus being a boy in the military because I only saw what it was like

TJ: to be a

Katy: So I can't tell you if my experience, experience was different from you until I hear about your experience.

Katy: Does that make sense? So being a girl in a fire department, I can only tell you what it was like for me, because I don't know that that's different from anyone else. But then when you hit, when, when I, the, my clue that there was a difference, uh, and I can distinctly, I can distinctly see it. And remember it was, you know, we had a two box in Pikesville, um, dryer fire got out of control.

Katy: Uh, it was us 18 and two, and there was another kid from my academy who was at 18. On my shift. So he was there on this fire. I want to say out there, like first, second and third engine. It's it's but butts to nuts. Cause we're all right on top of each other. So I can't remember. Um, I think we were second, I think my engine was second and he was first.

Katy: And I just remember watching. All of them, like, shake his hand, pat him on the back, and they're, like, joking around with him. And I'm over here just sitting on the tailboard of the engine, nobody talking to me. And I was like, oh, it's different.

TJ: it's different.

TJ: And, it,

Katy: again,

TJ: what,

Katy: interestingly enough, he ended up being a really big shitbag and got fired.

Katy: But, um,

TJ: really big shithead, he

Katy: he did.

TJ: um, I always go back

Katy: I always go back to that in my head. I'm like, y'all loved him so much, and he was a piece of shit. Um. You do get treated differently, I guess. Cause like I said, I can't, I can't speak to your experience, but I, I do know that there was a certain group of people that did treat me very differently.

Katy: And I, for the longest time was like, Look at these guys. They don't know me. I'm a strong woman, independent woman. And I would make all these excuses like, Oh, these guys.

TJ: have,

Katy: They've put their entire masculine identity into this job and then a girl comes in and does it.

TJ: and does it.

Katy: And that's why, that's why it's, that's why there's, there's disconnect between genders and roles and I'm just as capable and, and they should, they should know that I'm just as capable cause I got the job and I did it here, but you know, it's,

Katy: you can't really I can't really tell you definitively that any of the things that I think about that are true. You know, I can't tell you definitively, yes, it's because I'm a girl. Yes, it's because I have a resting bitch face and everyone thinks I'm mean. It's, I do, it's terrible, but I get it from my dad.

Katy: Um, I can't tell you any of those things. I can't tell you why they treat me this way. And for a long time in the beginning, I was like, well, maybe I'm just not good.

TJ: at this job.

Katy: Which sucks because that's how you end up feeling like that's how this gender role disconnection ends up ends up affecting women. I think I think it ends up making us think, Oh, we must not be good at this job.

Katy: We must not be doing a good job. We must not be living up to expectation. We must we must not be doing X, Y, and Z. And that could be completely untrue. It's just a predisposed.

TJ: decision

Katy: somebody made a long time ago that, uh, here's another one. What are we gonna have to deal with today? So, um,

TJ: feel like that was a

Katy: feel like that was a very long tangent and I forgot where we came from.

Katy: Other than you asking me what it was like as a girl. The last time I was asked what 

TJ: the Tanya started going off is when you were talking about

TJ: these dudes putting their whole masculine identity

TJ: into it,

TJ: and you feel that the disconnect comes from now,

TJ: the

TJ: Women might start feeling that they are just not good at the job. 

Katy: I think I, I, I, I do think that that plays into it.

Katy: Um, but again, you get the, it's, I'm about to get a whole bunch of girls mad at me. It's not all men. Right. It's, it's, it's not every, not everyone's gonna treat you like that, so you, you know, I don't know. It's, it's interesting to navigate, but if you're confident in your abilities and you, you do have.

TJ: have

Katy: a close enough group of people that you

TJ: you can

Katy: compare yourself, not compare yourself to, but hold yourself accountable to, and they can reassure you that you are doing a good job.

Katy: And it's not, it's not you. It's, it's whatever. It's, you know what? It just sucks. Um,

TJ: but like the vibe that I'm getting from you is

TJ: very much. Okay. These people are going to have this opinion, right? I know what I can do. I know what I bring to the table,

TJ: And those people whose opinion I value. Say that I'm bringing value to the table, so why am I gonna care about these other 

Katy: Because you always care about the other folks, right? , uh, that's, you could have 10 people telling you good things and one person telling you, one person criticizing you, and what are you gonna care about?

Katy: What are you gonna focus? It's voice gonna focus 

TJ: stand and shout in their faces,

Katy: Um, and you can stand and shout in their faces. No, no, no, no, no. You're wrong. But as a person who doesn't really believe that debating ever, ever works, all that does is make them dig their heels in. It's, you know, you're not going to change, you're not going to change somebody's initial impression of you.

Katy: You can't. Um, you can make the choice to lean into it, which I think is what a lot of people do, right? Hey, you don't like me? Cool, I don't like you. And that's how, that's now how that relationship is going to go from here on out, right? Someone 20 years from now, why don't you like them? I don't know, they didn't like me.

Katy: It, you don't, you don't. You don't even remember. So you can either lean into that and, and bucket, or you can do the less comfortable go through, you know, take the less comfortable path and be like, all right, well, I'm going to, I'm going to keep at you. Until I either break you, or it just becomes very evident that there's never going to be, we're never going to get past whatever this notion is you have of me.

Katy: So, unfortunately, and that's, I don't think that's a gender thing. I think all people do that. You don't like somebody, it's going to be either fuck you or let me try and change your mind. Which, sure, could be pointless, but you'd actually be surprised.

Katy: Yeah, I mean.

TJ: sure could be people who hate me until I'm dead, pretty much,

TJ: and there comes a point that's like, hey, good luck to you, bruh.

Katy: And what sucks, human nature speaking, is you will always think it's you. You'll always think, well, there's something inherently about me. That this person doesn't like when the more accurate assumption or the more accurate statement is probably there's something that this person doesn't like in themselves or about themselves that they're, that I'm reflect, you know, whatever.

Katy: You can psychoanalyze it. It's 20 weeks past Sunday, so it's your choice to internalize it or next, 

TJ: next question please. Remember how well that served you the first time. , 

Katy: nothing. Next.

TJ: All right. So perfect transition point.

Katy: let's 

TJ: let's talk about you leaving Balmer County. 

Katy: You'd think by now I'd have it memorized August 13th. I think 2021 is when the evident fall of Kabul was began. Um, and

TJ: if

Katy: people like, how did you get involved? It's by this point, it's so hard to. like put a finger on how, how it started and how I got involved

TJ: It

Katy: just because it was so murky. Um, I think it, you know, it happened. All of these people were scrambling, excuse me, to, uh, it all started with interpreters, right? You know, we were at war with Afghanistan for so long.

Katy: All of these, uh, specialized military groups.

TJ: used

Katy: native interpreters. And then there was this feeling of abandonment, like you helped us now you're being targeted because they know you helped us and now you're in danger. So how, how do we help? Um,

TJ: a

Katy: a friend of a friend of mine, uh, asked if I happened to know anybody who was still there, who could help.

Katy: And I very casually reached out to an, uh, actual person I knew who was a member of the Royal Marines.

TJ: um,

Katy: and said, Hey, I know you guys have a group of people there. Are you guys doing anything with this? Are you, are you working on getting people out? Are you involved in, are you involved with it at all? Um, and they were like, yeah, Lucy, like, here's what we can tell you.

Katy: Here's, here's a way this might work. Send their name to this person, whatever. And that snowballed into another, a former Uh, colonel that I, I know who messaged me and was like, Hey, I'm collecting names and I'm submitting them to the Air Force generals who are, you know, loading up the planes and flying them out.

Katy: If there are people that, you know, that have citizenship, green cards, um, blue passports, anything of that nature, uh, SIVs, you know, you know, immigration's a

TJ: It's a 

Katy: veritable shitshow. So any of these things that might have, give them ties to. The U S like, give me their names. Well, and their contact, it was like the world's worst spreadsheet and we'll work on getting them out.

Katy: Well, then that turned into another person I know who I used to work with was like, Hey, we're actually going over there. We've set up this system, this network where we are essentially, they rented cars and they were driving to houses and picking them up and Kaya, which is the big airport.

TJ: in Kabul.

Katy: Um, so that's, that was kind of the next step.

Katy: Now we're, now I, I had contact with a, about seven cabs that were driving around, so I would give them names, addresses, um, they'd show up at these people's houses, they'd verify, get, all right, let me see your ID. Let me see your passport. Okay, cool. They'd get in the car and we just drive them to HKIA,

TJ: drive them to HKIA.

Katy: them off.

Katy: They, they do the rest, you know, they get through the lines, they get on a plane, um, and they'd fly them out. Well. Then, it turned into buses, uh, started getting a hold of buses, and we were, we would park the buses in a relatively safe space, then use the, the rental cars to bring the people to the buses, or tell the people, hey, this is where the bus is, get on the bus, we'd have a bus manifest, um, you check the names off, the bus would then drive to HKIA and get through the gates, um, when Kabul finally fell.

Katy: When the Marine element left, things got trickier, um, because we no longer had control of that airport. So we had to find. another means of evacuation. During this time, we're also, you know, it's wild, you know, people are like, how? I was like, I don't even know. We, I managed to find people that could get safe houses.

Katy: So if people were in hiding, um, we were able to get them safe houses. We were able to, uh, deliver them food, things like that. But once HKIA,

TJ: H. Khaya

Katy: was controlled by the Taliban and was no longer an option, um, the next plan of attack was, okay, we're going to bust people up to Mazar e Sharif, which is north about four

TJ: four hours,

Katy: if I remember correctly.

Katy: Uh, so then that was what we were doing. We were able to And I say we, I would, I, there, there was about five core people that none of the things that I was able to do would have,

TJ: would

Katy: I would have been able to done without any of these people. Um, the, the guy that would get the buses for me, um,

TJ: and

Katy: and then there's the people that would pay the 750, 000 for the plane, um, the people who were able to verify the manifests that would get on the plane, and then the people who were, who were in contact with the UAE.

Katy: A royal family that allowed these planes to land, which is essentially what happened. So we were busing people, we'd pick them up in Kabul, they'd have to find their way to the bus. We'd have like six, six or seven buses that we would then drive the six hours, four hours, however long it was up to Mazar e Sharif, uh, where we were able to secure a hotel.

Katy: So we'd essentially rent out this whole hotel. All the families would go there for the night. We'd have food delivered.

TJ: overnight.

Katy: In the morning they'd get back on the buses, we'd bus them to the airport. My specific role, um, was coordination. Um, so I would be given the list of people's names that were going to be flying out.

Katy: Uh, I would make sure the correct people got on the correct buses. I would make sure that the food got delivered. Um, that they got back on the buses. And then when it was time for them to get on the plane, this is my, the best part of this whole thing, I would have to sit and the time change, this would end up being like three o'clock in the morning, our time.

Katy: So I'd have to sit on the computer on a live, on a live call with the, the gentlemen in.

TJ: in

Katy: The airport that was checking all of these passengers in and we'd have to go through it. We'd have about 340 people per plane. We did this for about 11 planes where he'd be like, okay, this person's here. Uh, this person, this isn't spelled right.

Katy: Or they're not here. What am I supposed to do? And I either have to, I'd either have to adjust the manifest, resubmit it and resend it. Or like. Beg, borrow, plead, and like just, they were, they're good, I messed up, something happened, let them on. And we'd have to go name by name by name by name by name. And uh, yeah, then once they got in the air, they'd land in the UAE.

TJ: It's

Katy: then that was a whole other group of people's responsibility. So that was my role. It was a very long winded explanation. Um,

TJ: I,

Katy: I, I did, I did the movement. So the plan was always Um, once that was done, I was going to go back to Baltimore. Uh, I had actually submitted for a leave of absence and it got denied.

Katy: So I was like, well, I'm going to resign then. Cause there you have two years, you can resign and come back without having to redo a bunch of shit. Um, so the plan was. I did not do that for about a year when, after a year, when my capabilities, my scope of practice, if you will, was exhausted and it turned into an immigration issue.

Katy: I was like, well, I, I'm not an immigration lawyer. Immigration looks terrible. I don't want anything to do with it. That's not what I can do. So I'm, I'm good. I got people out. We're done getting people out.

TJ: For a year. Ballpark. How many people total do you think you helped out?

Katy: Uh, ballpark 340 a plane. 11 planes.

TJ: Oh my God.

Katy: So, whatever that math is. But again,

TJ: I,

Katy: there's so many people involved in that. Like, I didn't hand pick all of those people and put them on the plane. I will say, I was, you can't see my air quotes, I was paid for my services by seats on planes. So, I would get 10 seats. And then, I had no one, there was one family that I was vested in.

Katy: And I got them out. And that's where I moved into my childhood home that Dave helped me, uh, get ready. But outside of that, like the people that you, you become close with and be like, Hey, I know you have these people you've been trying to get out. I have 10 seats on this plane. Like, give them to me. Let's go.

Katy: Um. Or like your emergency. I can distinctly remember my friend, Sophia, who I'm, who I met through all of this, who I still speak to. She was like, this kid just watched his whole family get blown up. He's 19 years old. He has no idea what he's doing. And this was like, as the buses were leaving, I was like, how far away from the buses are Izzy, she's like, he's 40 minutes.

Katy: I wired him 200 bucks. I told him to get in a cab, take the cab up to Mazar Sharif. I'll put him on the manifest. Like things like that. That's what that's, that was my niche. Um, but I, you know, I'm not making the, the manifests were controlled by the groups of interest. You know, everybody hears about Pineapple Express and SOA, and I can't even remember all the, all the groups of people that are putting the manifests together.

Katy: I just got the manifests and facilitated the planes, um, and dealt with the airline. The, the,

TJ: airline.

Katy: I made so much money off of that. Um, I dealt with the airline and Made sure that the plane reservation was there and the tail numbers and all this and that but like I said once all of that Was over. That's it. I can't I'm not I don't know how to process an SIV I don't know like immigration law the little that I learned from this whole process like fucking kill me that I Mean, I know they make it difficult on purpose, but hold and you I mean, I'm sure you have

TJ: Right.

TJ: It's, it's wild. So,

Katy: Right, it's it's wild so

Katy: Yeah, so

TJ: I did the quick math over 3, 700 people.

Katy: Okay, that's cool.

TJ: That is beyond cool. Can you tell me about this family that you were invested in

Katy: Oh yeah, I still talk to him. Um, there's, so there are a couple of, this is going to sound terrible. Like a couple of people that I'm actually very, very low key proud of getting out. Um, they are one of them. There was this family with these three kids, these school age kids that. Go to school in California.

Katy: Like we got them back. I got to do a video. I think it was, I was cool. I got to do a video chat with our class and like the principal was who brought me their names and was like, what do I do? Like stuff like that. Um, and then, uh, this girl.

TJ: Sucra,

Katy: who's, you know, 21 years old, got over here. I went and picked her up from the camp and like, she came and stayed with me for a week.

Katy: And now she's in a program and, uh, she's going to Georgetown, actually. Um, but the family, and this was the wild, this was the wild thing about that time and why it was so stressful. You know, um,

Katy: your name's getting handed out

Katy: by people that are there. Uh, hey, this person helped me call them. So I'm, I'm just walking around at home and I get this random call from this guy and he's...

TJ: and

Katy: He's in Texas. He's a full citizen. Um, his wife who was eight months pregnant and his two year old son is there. They're there. I mean, he's his brother and his mother and the rest of his family, but, um, he's hysterical and he's trying to figure out how to get them out.

Katy: And I was like, well, like, what's the, you know, what's the deal? And in the beginning I was like, I don't think I can help them. She was a, she didn't even have a green card. Her only, her connections to citizenship is him. He has, he has a blue passport. So their son was born before he got citizenship. So it didn't transmit to him, but the son she was pregnant with is technically an American citizen.

Katy: That's all very like, you know, it's all very convoluted. So, um, essentially she doesn't have a whole lot paperwork wise. Uh, she doesn't speak English. Um, so that was super fun. Um, but you know, I tried three times to get her out. One of the worst times she ended up sitting on a bus for 18 hours outside of the gate of HKIA the day that they decided they weren't gonna let anymore buses in, so she ended up going home.

Katy: Uh, the husband flew into, back into Afghanistan. went to, went home and he called me. He's like, I'm here. Get us out, get us all out. And I was like, cool. You know, you made it harder, right? But, um, eventually, uh, I was able to convince them to get on a bus, go up to Mazar e Sharif, get on a plane. They got out, um, when they flew into the camp in New Jersey.

Katy: Um, you know, that, that's where things got really difficult because they flew all these people here and then like, now what, what are we going to do with them? He had sold his apartment and all of his stuff so that he could go back and get them. So I was like, well, I have this house that's sitting here in Aberdeen.

Katy: Um, doing nothing, like, let me roll up there and see how bad it is and see if it can, if, if, cause if I, if, if they, if I could bring them out of the camp and have them somewhere for them to go, then they'd be released. So

TJ: I,

Katy: I put out what ended up being a wide net on the social networks. I was like, Hey, if anybody has furniture.

Katy: Or anything, and man, it was like floodgates. People were dropping stuff off, driving stuff to the house. Uh, the house was a mess, so I, I asked if people could come help. Dave Smith, and actually Dave Angelo as well. Both Daves, at some point during the process, like, came and helped me clean it up.

TJ: put

Katy: Fixed lighting fixtures.

Katy: Whatever, whatever needed doing. And um, I went and picked them up from the camp in New Jersey. And drove them back here. And he didn't tell the, he didn't tell his wife, uh, his name was Zaki. Her name was Wajma. Um, didn't tell her that she just thought they were going to come out for a day and come meet my family.

Katy: We took them to the house. I handed her a key. I was like, you do not have to go back there. Um, so they stayed for a little while. Uh, he ended up getting, he's a, he is a CDL, does a, he does truck driving. They moved out to Utah and he's got a couple of trucks out there. She speak, I can text her now. She's like, her English is pretty good.

Katy: Um, the babies are good. All during this whole time, she had the baby. So by the time I got them out, you know, now they have a newborn and a two year old. So, uh, it was very cool. That's, I've, I've, I've told her, I wish you would write her story down. I feel like her story is a very interesting story to tell.

Katy: Um, but yeah, that was the family that I was invested in. Um, and if I got no one out other than them, I'm glad I got them out, but to tie that all back in, yeah, after a year I planned on going back to Baltimore, but, um, it just so happened that this recruit class opened up at the same time.

Katy: Did you, did you catch any from

TJ: opened up at the same time. Baltimore

TJ: County people? for, for walking away. Nope.

Katy: Um,

Katy: one there, you know, there's the, there's the mentality like, oh, there's so many people and there's so many people waiting for that position that.

TJ: that,

Katy: you know, you're not abandoning anything. Um, but they all knew, uh, because for a lot, for a couple, uh, maybe six weeks, I was trying to do both at the same time, and it was a mess.

Katy: It was very, very stressful. Um, so everyone on my shift knew, and when I made Which, you know, I think one of the questions you asked, like, were you ever unsure? I was, I'm still unsure. It's like, you know, I was, I remember distinctly driving away my last day crying, like, what am I doing? Like what? Like, this is not this turning my gear.

Katy: And I was like, this is, this was not a good idea. Like this is not what I'm leaving something that's so stable. And so, um, You know, I'm, I'm used to, and I'm essentially jumping into nothingness and trying to figure out yet again, navigate some new task. Uh, but no, I, I know backlash. Everyone was really supportive.

Katy: There were a lot of people from the department that came and helped clean up the house. Um, which was really cool to see everyone thought. You know, if it's important enough, like you said, if it's important enough to walk away from a stable career, you probably think it's fairly important. So now everyone seemed really, and even that, even the chief on my last day, cause everyone kind of knew the intention was to go back.

Katy: My chief on the last day was like, we'll just, you know, make sure you keep your, your stuff up to date and we'll see you when you get back. So, you

TJ: I love that. I love that

TJ: because I think most of us have heard the conversations

TJ: of people who

TJ: like about people who leave, about people who separate from the department and. I mean, one of my classmates left after 10 years, one of the best guys that we ever got the honor to ride firetrucks with. And people still called him a shitbag and a coward and a quitter for leaving the department.

TJ: And I've asked a couple people, 

Katy: um, 

TJ: Nick who left Harrisburg to go to upper Darby. And I'm very amazed that I'm not getting the answers that I would expect. to get and that tells me that the culture is shifting because again the conversations that I've heard are oh this person left He's a piece of shit or oh, she just couldn't hack it Most of the answers I'm getting are like no people understood 

Katy: Yeah, 

TJ: like in Nick's case people understood that it was for his family's sake.

Katy: Yeah 

TJ: your department, everybody in the fire service jumped in to help out that cause and 

Katy: Um, 

TJ: while it is an unexpected answer, it gives me so much hope for the fire service culture. Because that tells me we are shifting that mindset of making our whole identity the fire 

Katy: The fire, yeah.

TJ: And realizing, no, our people have amazing talents and we, as their fire service family, we owe them to celebrate and to support those talents and to help them achieve those things. So I love hearing. that Everybody jumped in. I'm not surprised that both Daves Jumped in to be, to be a hundred percent honest, because that's the kind of people that they are.

Katy: Yeah, it was very, it was very, it was very cool. And I, you know, I can only tell you from what I, maybe there were people that, but I was gone by then. Maybe there were people that were shit talking, but the people that I kept in my circle knew, knew why, and, Didn't really have anything terrible to say about it.

Katy: So, I was lucky. Um, but yeah.

TJ: That's a good circle.

Katy: It's a good circle.

TJ: And

Katy: It's a good circle. And I, and I also think there was the, I was planning on coming back. Um. And then

TJ: drum roll.

TJ: Then you were ready for question number one. Tell us more about Howard County.

Katy: Um,

TJ: did they ask you that question in the interview? What

Katy: what do you know about Howard County? Everything.

TJ: I know where you live,

Katy: Right.

TJ: She's like, uh, what?

Katy: Yeah. I, I think at the precipice of it, I didn't again, because I make. Snap judgments. I didn't in my head play out all the steps. I was just like, yeah, I'll just go back to another Academy

TJ: I

Katy: Probably probably um and So when I when I did get I mean I was I was so thing, you know Like I said, I tried to get in here first I live here My kids go to school here, you know, I'm six minutes from my station.

Katy: Like this is my community. I loved the idea of

TJ: oh god, actually.

Katy: serving, oh God, how cliche serving the community that I live in, you know, the people that I see all the time. So I, I, I really thought it was a good opportunity, um, to at the young spry age of 43, go through a seven month Academy and, and get back. Start all over, uh, from the beginning.

Katy: Um, I think that I suppressed because I think if I had let that bubble up, I would have been a little bit more wishy washy. So I'm glad I didn't. I'm very glad I didn't. Um, Yeah, what's

TJ: What

TJ: was going through your mind? 

Katy: What? When?

TJ: when you decided

Katy: Um, 

TJ: go through and, because that's Mark's number three, that we know, of, of any sort of Structured training program that you've gone through in your life. Most people say they would never do a fire academy and you're like Academy number two

TJ: and I was in the Marine Corps, so bring

TJ: it. 

Katy: I was in the rancor. So, right. Um, I think again, I, I fell back on the, I've done it before.

Katy: I know what I'm walking into. I thought I did at least. Um, this was, this one was different. This, this one's different than Baltimore for sure. Um, you know, I, I, I know how to live in that world. I know how to walk that.

TJ: that path.

Katy: Uh, somewhat, I mean, I tripped and stumbled enough, but, um, so it, it, it wasn't daunting to me.