046. Do Not Be Discouraged By The Critics: Crafting Better Gear with Sean Conant [Part 1]

In this episode of the Keep the Promise podcast, TJ interviews Sean from FILO Apparel, a firefighter-owned company dedicated to providing safe, affordable, and PFAS-free station wear. The discussion covers Sean’s journey into the fire service, the inception of FILO Apparel, and the challenges and successes in establishing a company that stays true to its mission of supporting line firefighters. They also explore the impact of uniform allowances, the importance of quick turnaround times, and how FILO plans to maintain its integrity and mission as it grows.

00:00 Introduction and Mission Statement

01:15 Meet Sean from FILO Apparel

02:13 Sean's Journey into the Fire Service

08:42 Starting FILO Apparel

13:21 Challenges and Successes

17:00 Customer Feedback and Future Plans

27:59 Addressing Critics

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Transcript

Sean: it's special and I will we will never sell out because I come from the line I'm a line firefighter , I I'm where all of these guys are now with the paycheck to paycheck blue collar guys there's a way that we can keep it the way it is now and never sell out and always keep the line firefighters in mind. Because that's what we're here for. 

TJ: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to today's episode of the keep the promise podcast I'm your host TJ and if you've paid any sort of attention to any of the episodes or anything of what we do here you realize that We care about helping firefighters and making sure they are safe, not just on the fire ground, but beyond the fire ground, beyond the fire house.

And we've managed to be in contact with a lot of folks who really live that mantra, if you will, who, Take it into their own hands to leave the flyer service better than they found it. And the amazing thing is that it's through things that we would have never thought possible. And today we're going to talk to Sean from Filo Apparel and Filo Fuel, who.

Took the path of the station uniforms and how that can make a safer free from PFAS and make sure that we have a long career. So without further ado from Filo apparel and fuel, I hope I don't mess this up. Sean, Sean, welcome.

Sean: Thank you so much, TJ. You, you, you knocked it out of the park. You, you got it right on. That might be the first time someone tried my name for the first time and said it correct, uh, in all my life. So thank you. Uh, but before we get too far into this, I do want to just tell you, thank you for allowing us, myself and Philo to be on the keep the promise podcast.

So thank you so much for having us here today. It's, it's been great talking to you on the phone and it's, this has already started off to be a wonderful day.

TJ: Yeah, we'll have a great time and we're going to cover quite a few things, make some new friends along the way. But before we even get started on that, on that journey, why don't you tell us about your journey, how you got started in the fire service, where you are these days, and sort of your little, um, your little bio.

Sean: Okay, absolutely. So when I graduated high school, I was, I don't want to say lost, but I wasn't sure what direction I wanted to go. Uh, so you know, at in the early 2000s, 2001 when I was going to, I was going into my college years, I thought, all right, I'll just go and I'll go to college and I'll get a four year degree in something.

And I don't, I don't know what I'm going to do. I just, everybody told me college is where you need to go after high school. So I'm home on a weekend, you know, just going to classes, just picking college classes, you know, not happy at what I'm doing, probably enjoying more of the weekends than I am the weekdays.

And, uh, I'm over at a friend's house. And my, I get a call, I'm at a friend's house in the neighborhood in the neighborhood that I, that my parents lived in. And I get a call that my dad is having a heart attack, uh, and, and 911 has been called. I get a call from, from my mom. So I literally run home. And when I say literally, I mean, I run, uh, Uh, get there.

My dad is, is in full cardiac arrest. The paramedics show up and they, they essentially, he was in either V fib or V tap, I'm not sure, but they put the eight, they put the monitor on him. They defibrillated him, brought him back to life. So, uh, brought him back into normal, normal sinus rhythm. He goes to the hospital.

He goes through all his cardiac journey from there, but essentially. They saved his life. When I saw that, I don't know if that was the sign that I needed to see, but right then and there, I thought to myself, I know what I like, well, not right then and there after the shock of my dad being in a heart attack, once that goes away, I realized this is what I want to do with my life.

So I finished that semester of college immediately. Uh, that, that was my first semester was from September to December. Uh, in January, I started to enroll in the, what we have in Florida is minimum standards where you take it's fire school. And then you also do your, your EMT, uh, your EMT classes. And then that was, that was essentially, that was right then and there.

I knew. That's what I want to do with my life.

TJ: So you have one of the stories that, that the fire service hit home before you even knew about it.

Sean: Yes.

TJ: that is,

Sean: Yeah, I, I'm not what, you know, a legacy or a nugget or whatever you would call where guys say, yeah, you know, my grandfather was in the service. My great grandfather started at the FDNY or something like that. No, none of that. Nobody in my family up until me was ever in the fire service. I was the first one.

And ultimately it was because of a, a personal life experience that got me wanting to be. I'm very close with my father. Uh, I, when I was a kid, he was my hero. I looked up to him. I still look up to him. And it, you know, if somebody performed that type of miracle, bringing him back to life, I mean, he was 43 years old.

I was 18, you know, about to be 19 and to lose your hero and somebody you truly look up to, that would have been devastating. I mean, who knows where I would be now. If, if, if these, if, if these type of things would have transpired differently. Right. And I thought to myself, like, maybe, I'm not trying to be a hero, but maybe I can, I can help with one of these miracles in someone else's life.

Because, you know, it wasn't just one person on that crew, uh, that saved my father's life. It was the whole crew. Everybody had a part to play. Playing back all the events in my head now of, the EMTs were, you know, we're maybe pulling up drugs or the EMTs were setting up the defibrillator or putting the pads on.

You realize now being in the fire service and knowing how this, these teams work, you know that it's the whole crew. It's not just one paramedic who did one specific thing. It was the whole crew. And I just want to be part of that type of crew and that type of miracle to potentially helps to save someone else's, you know, father or someone else's hero who they look up to in life.

TJ: and you've been through a lot. A few departments. So I'm sure you have got the chance to perform such. I mean, we, we know it's lifesaving, but to us, it's just everyday calls. Where'd you end up after you took minimum standards and you got your certs and everything?

Sean: So when I left minimum standards and got my EMT, I went to Kings Bay Navy base and at the time they were, they were just a contractor. And I got there just because I, you know, at the time in the early two thousands, a lot of places were on hiring freezes and then you had that huge hiring wave From 9 11 and everybody, you know, when they watched the Twin Towers fall and when they watched, uh, you know, the firefighters rushing is everyone was rushing out.

There was a huge wave of everybody wanted to go to minimum standards. Everybody wanted to be a firefighter. Everybody wanted to be that hero. Well, you know, Not to say that I, I fell in in that way. That wasn't my reasoning, but that I fell in during that time frame. So everyone, everywhere was on a hiring freeze and everybody's son or everybody's grandson was getting hired at that time.

And I had to go where I could go. So I went to Kings Bay Navy Base at the time it was contract. And then shortly after that, I only spent about a year there and I went into Camden County Fire Rescue in South Georgia. And that was an experience. I, you, you can't pay for that type of experience. It was great because it was very rule and there was a lot, you know, it wasn't the high rise.

It was, and it wasn't the suppression systems. There was a lot of really great calls that I was able to get. baptized under fire per se in the fire service by, by working in that rural area in South Georgia.

TJ: Fantastic. Yeah. Because you are from like the Northern area of Florida. So it was just a quick hop up the interstate, right?

Sean: yeah. So I, at the time I lived in the county. I was in the most Northern County you could be in, in Northeast Florida.

TJ: I've been there a couple of times. In passing and for concerts and partying and you know, back, back in the old college days.

Sean: Exactly. Having a good time.

TJ: Oh, having an absolute, absolute amazing time. Okay, let's just dive into phylo. We can sit here and talk fire service shop and everything, but I'm really excited to learn more about starting with the apparel.

Obviously we'll get to the coffee by the time we started getting tired, but Elevator pitch, I just met you, I have no idea what phyllo is, other than, isn't it like what they wrap the, you can make greek dishes with it, right? Like phyllo dough? That's what I kept thinking about.

Sean: I've never heard of that, but maybe it is. I don't know.

TJ: Oh dude, it's delicious. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's absolutely delicious.

But, okay, you just met me in an elevator. Elevator pitch, hi, I'm TJ. Ha

Sean: hoping TJ, this, this is a high rise that we hopefully we're in somewhere in New York. So, cause I don't want to, I don't want to shortchange you on four floors here.

TJ: Or we will get stuck.

Sean: so someone's going to pull the button and the elevator is going to stop here. Uh, so the elevator pitch with Philo, Philo Apparel, we are ultimate, we're a firefighter owned station ware company.

Okay. And what does that mean? So let, to, to tell you what that means, I'm going to go back and give you the backstory. In 2018, I started in my, my federal career, my federal firefighting career. We get a clothing allowance once a year on that clothing allowance. I was so frustrated because the low clothing allowance at the time with the cost of all the apparel, the, the, the F R apparel going up and skyrocketing.

I could, I mean, really. To really meet what we needed for the job. You couldn't really purchase everything. It was just too expensive So i'm sitting at a local barbecue restaurant with a good friend of mine who has family all over the new jersey fire service And I, and I'm just, ultimately I'm venting, I'm complaining how, how frustrated I am that I'm trying to buy two, three, four pairs of pants, you know, a couple shirts, some t shirts, hats, belts, boots, all the stuff that you need for the fire service to be in station gear.

And, and finally I was like, Man, I just want to start our own FR company. He was like, we should start our own FR company. And that literally October in a barbecue restaurant in Jacksonville We that's where phyllo apparel was born. So we started going through the whole rigmarole of Okay. We know we need to make it more affordable.

That's one, but also we need to make sure that the sizes are more correct. That's two. And the list gets, keeps going. We want to make it safer. There's no reason why we're in an inherently dangerous job. And we all signed up for that. And I understand this. But there's no reason to add some type of danger or risk in the fact that we have heavy metals and PFOS in our station gear.

Our station wear, we're literally wearing the bulk of our ship. You wake up in the morning, you put your pants on. At least, I hope, whatever station people are at. They're not just coming out in their whitey tighties, you know. I'm not saying that doesn't happen,

TJ: Don't judge.

Sean: there's no judgment here.

This is a judge free zone. Uh, but for the most part, people are getting up and they're throwing on their, their, you know, their FR pants. They're putting on their boots, they're putting all that stuff on. Then you're wearing that, one, under your train, under your bunker gear when you go on calls. If you're training, you're wearing it under your bunker gear if you're doing that.

At this point, your, your skin, your dermal layer is heating up, the pores are opening up, and any chemical that's on it is just soaking right into the bloodstream at that point. It's making it, it's absorbing through your skin. So our, back to what we were trying to do, we wanted to make it safer for the, for the firefighter in a dangerous job.

So we made it PFAS free. We made it more affordable. So it's, it's way cheaper than, than the competition. And that's because we don't sell to distributors and suppliers. We go directly to the consumer. So we, we've been approached by distributors and suppliers and we say, no, thank you. This is a firefighter owned company with firefighters and fire departments in mind.

We will sell directly to those individuals and we're not interested in bringing on the distributor or supplier. And then also we wanted to make sure that our lead time. You know, there's stories that you hear all over the fire service where it was taking 2345 weeks, months, even 68 months. We've heard, we guarantee two weeks or less that you will order your, your order, your station where, and it will be in your hand.

Within two weeks or less.

TJ: That is insane. That is a super quick turnaround time,

Sean: Absolutely.

TJ: especially for a, such a grassroots sort of effort. What stumbling blocks, what sort of obstacles and what sort of pushback did you guys encounter when you first started? Because anytime that you try to break into anything, Business related and especially fire service related.

You are coming up against that institutional inertia that, you know, the good old boys club, the way we've always done it. And especially when you are pretty much shunning the way that it's always done, no distributors direct to consumer direct to the people who use it, your entire system, like your entire approach is so disruptive that it couldn't have been an easy road.

Sean: It was, so there was, we've had multiple speed, I call them speed bumps. We didn't stumble so much, but there was, there was just little hurdles we had to get over. First and foremost, the first speed bump I believe that we encountered was finding the right manufacturer. We needed to make sure that we found the right manufacturer. factory, if you'll say to, you know, kind of put it plainly because we wanted, we weren't looking for this major factory that all the competition was going to. We wanted more of a, this was a grassroots business. We wanted a grassroots Factory that we could work with. We're on first name basis. They know who we are.

They know who, uh, we know who they are. We know who their, their, their wives are. We know who their kids are. They vice versa. We talk to them on a regular basis. We wanted to really find somebody who had the right mentality that we have that instead of you buying a 36 one year and it fit perfectly. And then you buy a 36 the next year.

And yeah, maybe you put on a few LBs, but. At the end of the day, they were fitting like size thirties. We didn't, we wanted a very thin threshold to fit true to size. Once we figured that out, we thought, okay, this is not a big deal. Okay. We're good to go. We're about to full steam ahead until we come up to the next speed bump.

The next speed bump fast forward to June 5th of 2023 when we go live and we start to sell to the consumer or the firefighter. And one, the biggest speed bump that we've had and we, we, we overcome it on a daily basis by having conversations like this is getting the word out there for so many years. It's always been the same brands over and over and over and over again.

And you switch from one brand to the next brand. You think they're going to be better, but they're the same as the old brand. And you just keep hopping back and forth and hopping back and forth. So our biggest thing is we don't want to just Be your brand this year. We want to be your brand forever for, for, for the period of your career and then so on and so forth.

That's why we keep everything as lean as possible. We make the price so affordable and we keep it as safe as possible because we have The firefighters in the fire departments that we have their best interest at heart, not the corporate, you know, the corporation or the board that's sitting over there that cares about the bottom line.

TJ: To me, it's so fascinating and I guess it shows how sheltered I am in my fire service experience that there are folks who have, uh, a uniform allowance and who have to buy their own uniforms. Because I told you that we get our stuff issued and it's, I think cause I pushed, I pushed that envelope and it was like every six months you could get two short sleeves, two long sleeves, two long trousers and two sets of shorts.

And once a year the shoe mobile comes around and you get your station boots,

Sean: A free pair of boots.

TJ: free pair of boots. And if you miss it, they will cut you a check and you go to an authorized supplier and whatever you get, you, um, yeah, I think I only paid like 20 bucks for a pair of like super specialized low cut steel toe or whatever composite shoes.

And I guess that shows how, how we do things. And the one downside is that I guarantee you're from a supply and demand standpoint, Our quartermasters are ripping their hair out being like, we have so many units in this size that are never going to get used. We're running out of the other ones. So I think your lean system, like your lean approach to it, I mean, it's going to keep you scrappy.

Isn't it's um, It's going to make it much easier for the end user for the firefighters to just get what they need. And I'm still, I'm still baffled by by two week turnaround time. That is, that is insane. How have, how has the fire service responded so far? What has been the, like the feeling, the vibe within the fire service to this stuff?

Sean: The overall feeling has been incredible. There's been people who were super grateful. Uh, everybody has, I'm not going to say everybody. We've had a few people, we have had some returns. The returns are very minimal. And realistically, we've, our customer service department, who is also one of the owners of the company, she runs the customer service department.

She's in charge. She's who you talk to. We make it very, very easy to, to, to do the returns if you need to, but she's absolutely incredible. With that said it, the few returns we have had, most of it is a sizing issue because they're used to a certain size in the other brands. And they're like, Oh, these just didn't fit like that.

I need to go up or go down a size because, and which is funny, because this is the size that I may wear in my favorite jeans or khaki pants or whatever it is you wear. Uh, so the, the outcry has been incredible. With the people that have found us again, that speed bump number one, or really the major, major speed bump is just getting the word out that we're there and that this isn't just too good to be true.

We're, you know, and that's, you know, firefighters just as well as anybody else. One person comes to the kitchen table, you guys are having your morning coffee. Somebody finds something online and you're like, guys, you got to see this. And that one guy is like, yeah, if it's not, if it's not too good to be true, you know, like this is, Sure.

I mean, if you guys want to take that risk, go ahead. Use that random company called Amazon. If you really want to, it's like, okay, I think, I think it'll be okay. Uh, so, or yeah, if you guys want to keep looking stuff up on that thing, they call the internet. It's a kind of a fad. I don't think it'll be around that long. So, I mean, you know how you, you, you know what I mean by that. Uh, so, but really want, the more we educate and the more we get out there, the outcry for what we're doing, people are just thankful that we're giving them. The option that they truly won't deep down. There's a lot really in, in all honesty, finding I'm finding and talking to more departments that do the uniform allowance because of what you just said.

We've got all these sizes and inventory that are sitting on our books that we've already at, we've already put this money out. Or we owe the company money on a, you know, a net 30 net 60 net 90 day PO is coming up. We're about to have to pay them, but no one's taking this size pants or no one's taking this size shirt.

So it seems like the transition to departments saying. Here's your uniform allowance. Here's your SOPs and SOGs. You report to duty in the appropriate apparel or you'll be disciplined in the way that we see fit. And they go out and then they find out us and they're like, Oh, great. We don't have to spend 200, 250 on a pair of pants.

We can get it for 130 or 144.

TJ: Yeah, I'm looking at your catalog right now. And from what I've seen from the The traditional ones, even though the, um, the name tapes. Yeah. From what I've seen from the more traditional companies, the price is infinitely more affordable for the rank and file firefighter with the understanding that we're still blue collar workers and we're not making money hand over fist.

So it's every penny has to count.

Sean: You would be surprised how much we've heard that too, is that a lot of guys are like, Hey, you know, normally I get X amount of money. Normally I spend every bit of it now because you guys have come on the scene. We're spending three, you know, three quarters of it, or, or we're spending, you know, just under the amount and we're getting more dollars for, for what we're, what we paid for and not to mention.

You have, you have custom inseam. There's no additional charge for that. So if you are, if you know your inseam, you know what size pants you wear, you can get that done. Still get your order in two weeks or less. If you want your name tapes on there because that's what your department requires, you can get that put on there still in two weeks or less.

The only thing you'll have to do for your shirts whenever that comes is Your department patch and potentially your medical patch or whatever goes on the opposite sleeve is your department patch. We don't, we haven't gotten into that yet. Uh, that that's been talks within the company that maybe one day we will, but right now, uh, we're just, we're, we're very happy where we are and we'll be looking to grow when we, when we need to, uh, but your shirt and your pants can come as ready as possible with literally you take it to an alteration shop, throw on the patch you get from your department and whatever your medical patch or the other, the other sleeve gets.

TJ: Wild. Wild. I'm still, I'm still amazed at that, at that turnaround time. Now, here's a question. So it's, you launched a little bit over a year ago and you're in that, in that building phase and that getting the name out there, establishing the reputation. How What's going to happen when you start growing to those big, massive levels and how do you plan on ensuring that you're still Basically keeping true to your mission statement.

Basically. I don't want to say sell out because I think that term is overused, but for lack of better terms, how, how will you ensure that, you know, Philo in five, 10 years is going to be a company that you will look at right now and be like, yeah, I'm proud of what we're doing.

Sean: So that's a great question, TJ. And the one of the, as it go back to what I said originally was one of our first speed bumps was how, how can we, how can we find a factory and a facility that will keep the love and not in, you know, what you said, sell out and be too big. So what we did was we, we asked everybody when we, we conducted interviews, just like you do when you go in front of an oral board for a promotion, or when you first get hired on with the fire service, we did an interview process with these facilities and said, if we grow, What kind of level can you grow and can you, can you facilitate and still keep the same quality?

And the one we landed on said, yes, they've proven true. And we continue to have this connection with them. But we don't, we're not looking to sell the company. We're looking to grow the company and get more exposure to other firefighters and continue to be able to provide them with the same qualities, customer service, same quality product, and the same quality of service in every aspect, along with. We want to keep our prices affordable as possible. It's, it's not crazy to think that we have to go up by 1. 50 on a pair of pants in the next couple years or something like that. So, we want to keep everything exactly the way it is now and grow and not bring on unnecessary cost.

TJ: Yeah, and that's a noble endeavor because firefighters are always going to be cheap. I'll say it. You know, TJ leather. I see it all the time. People are always asking for more for less and faster and um, but it's, it's understandable, right? It's, we earn. It's, um, it's not, it's not like a passive income type thing.

It's, um, every single dollar is, is definitely earned. So keeping that in mind for the future is, um, yeah, that gives me hope because you don't want to look at a company that, that sells out and just be like, man, I remember when they used to do cool stuff and now they're just the big ones and

Sean: I think that is, I, I really think that that's, See how I can put this it's special and I will we will never sell out because I come from the line I'm a line firefighter Okay, I I'm where all of these guys are now with the paycheck to paycheck blue collar guys I buy my own uniforms. I steal the phylo apparel uniforms that I currently have I purchased on the website.

So I you know, I use my uniform allowance even though i'm an owner of philo apparel I use my uniform allowance for my uniforms. Like I'm still utilizing that for it. So I, you know, it's like, it's like the people you hear about the hair club for men. Like I'm not only the president, I'm also a subscriber.

So I'm not only a, an owner of Philo, I'm also a user. Uh, so I, there's a way that we can keep it the way it is now and never sell out and always keep the line firefighters in mind. Because that's what we're here for. We're here to keep the cost as affordable as possible and never flake out on our promise to get it to you in two weeks or less.

TJ: PFAS free.

Sean: Always PFAS free. That's that being safe and being health and health, health conscious. And, you know, being healthy, that's what we have to do. That, that's our responsibility as a company and that's our responsibilities just as people in general who care about other people. So we have to keep, everything has to be better and safer for the end user.

TJ: What would you say to the critics that would come at you and say you are using the PFAS crusade as almost a crutch to sell more, to stand out more?

Sean: I would, I would say that you, you're using, uh, you're using us as a crutch. Now you're using us as a talking point because how, if we're, all we're trying to do is get out the information out there to show the firefighters that there is a safer option, I'm more, I'm more concerned with the firefighters being in something that's PFAS free.

If you want to say that we're using it as a crutch in a marketing campaign. Sure. Go ahead and use it. I, I, if you want to say that, say it. But at the end of the day, when we put firefighters in safer uniforms, that's what means it. And I'm not worried about what the critics say there. You're going to have 10 haters and you're going to have 10 people who aren't hating and appreciate it.

I care about the people who are appreciating. Okay. And that's really what matters. At the end of the day, we're trying to keep the guys who are the guys and girls that are going to emergency situations, trying to keep them safer.

TJ: Yeah, and I think those critics, a lot of times come from a place of not seeing the long term, not looking at a, at a long enough time horizon because like, Oh, well, I'm not seeing anything bad happen right now. So this is all a bunch of mumbo jumbo bullshit,

Sean: Yeah.

TJ: not realizing that every single thing that we do, every single thing we come in contact with every single hour of missed sleep and chemical that, uh, It might be in 10 years, it might be in 1520 or like end of life, you're looking at some goofy, weird cancer that nobody's seen before.

And speaking of critics and those people who, who may not believe in things, have you managed to get your entire shift in phylo gear, or do you still have holdouts?

Sean: We have a few of the older guys that I personally work with are in, they're not even wearing FR material. They're, they're wearing, uh, I think some of them are wearing like Dickies, uh, which I've, I've tried to, these guys, these are guys that are, six months to a year away from retirement. You're not going to change that.

They, they've been eating the same breakfast for 20 years. You're not going to convince them to buy a different pair of pants. Uh, a ton of people in the department that I work for, they, they do buy phylo. They are on uniform allowances. They do buy the phylo apparel, pants and the shirt. They, they, to me, they look the best of all the guys.

Of course it's a

TJ: Hell yeah.

Sean: Uh, but to go back, let's, let's go back one thing with what you said about the critics. Because I think that's an important question and that's something really important to hit on. So I, I believe, I believe in let's, let's look at the full picture here. Are we marketing on PFAS free?

100 percent we are. We absolutely are. Are, are we, are we high ranking on Google when you look for PFAS free Nomex? Absolutely. We are. Are we also ranking on, Are we also marketing on quicker shipment times? Absolutely. We are. Are we also marketing on more affordable pricing? Absolutely. We are. All of these things we are marketing on to all we're doing, trying to do is gain awareness and show the firefighters and the fire departments.

There is a better option out there. For that's safer more affordable and quickly to deliver to you These are our these are our foundations and our pillars that we build our company on So, of course we're marketing on it So if you want to be critical of that Then are you telling me that we shouldn't market on this and we shouldn't show that there's a safer option you want to put these guys With an apparel that has pfos in it because we we're in a free market here The other competition could market on that as well if they want to That's what I that would be my long answer to the critics And if you know, i'd love to hear what their answer would be on that But we haven't heard it.

We haven't had any critics say anything like that to us