050. Love You, Don't Die - Sammy Freyta [Part 2]

This episode of the Keep the Promise podcast focuses on the importance of proactive mental health practices within the fire service. Guest Sammy Freyta discusses breaking harmful cycles and the evolution of peer teams into a more integrated, supportive system within fire departments. By embedding mental fitness training and practicing Stoicism actively, Sammy and her team are promoting a culture where every firefighter is equipped to support their peers. She underscores the importance of doing hard things and the strength required to seek help. Listen to learn how small departments are leading change and why addressing mental health head-on is crucial.

00:35 Peer Teams vs. CISM Teams

00:50 The Utopia Fire Department Vision

01:57 Building Strong Relationships with Peer Teams

03:27 Alive Minded: A New Approach to Mental Fitness

03:55 The Role of Stoicism in Mental Fitness

04:49 Proactive Mental Health Culture

06:46 Challenges and Successes of Peer Teams

24:22 The Importance of Basic Self-Care

26:11 Emerging Trends in Mental Health for First Responders

32:41 Personal Reflections and Failures

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Transcript

TJ: Give me your thoughts on peer teams versus system teams

Sammy: Well, I don't know. Can I just, maybe, maybe I can open it up with my thought about how, my weird thought about how I believe departments should work. Um,

TJ: it the utopia fire department. This is the fire service according to Sammy

Sammy: is actually where I wish Dave would be here because what he, this is a, uh, one of his favorite pastimes is to apply for chief positions all over the place that he's completely unqualified for just for fun. And so we always joke and we tell our department system, they're like, you know, one day he's going to get a job.

And then what are you guys going to do? And it is true. His, his vision is to become a chief that he's completely unqualified for, and then call the, the department, the friendly fire brigade

TJ: Friendly fire

Sammy: or friendship fire brigade, That's what he wants to do. That's, that's his envision of the department that Dave would like to run.

Everybody's best friends. Um, so.

TJ: I was gonna say don't hire me because I'm gonna come in with my crackhead energy, and we're gonna be fighting each other in no time.

Sammy: He's gonna

be like, this is not aligned with the friendship fire

TJ: former Friendship Fire Brigade. Now we just, we beefin Rude.

Sammy: he's quite something. Maybe you can meet him one day, but. So my, I guess what's happened with our peer teams is that we've become so close with them that it's turned into this whole other program, which I was kind of explaining is that we are now on site and we're embedded as a team with the fire departments.

So. We are, and next year I'm going to hopefully be even more embedded, whereas I'm going to be more full time at one of the departments that we work at. So, what's happened is, is the relationship has kind of outgrown a peer team. Because we are working so closely together, that now, We not only meet with the peer team quarterly and the peer team is there to kind of like, let me know what's going on or help me out or tell me about a bad call that's happened or whatever, but also because everybody knows us and I'm there so much and we've developed that relationship with them that.

We're all sort of working together. So what's happened is now we kind of utilize the peer team in the first couple of years that we worked with them to, to do trainings with them and to do this mental fitness stuff and to teach them that, and they were sort of our catalysts and because they liked it and because it went so well, now we've opened that up to be teaching the department, these things.

So every quarter we try to, with all of our departments, we try to do a training with everybody, all the, all the line staff, um, and the executive staff. So that. Everybody is hearing this information, not just the peer team. And so what's happened is we, we, what we, we have weird words for the stuff that we do, but we call it alive minded.

So we've developed this, what I guess you could call program that is. Not only the peer team's a part of, but they've almost become more like our coaches. So they're like, they, they help almost implement the things that we're talking about when we're not around. But also everybody is trained in mental fitness, not just the peer teams.

So, um, Why we call it Alive Minded is we follow, um, Stoicism. So we practice a lot of Stoicism and we actually bring our daily Stoic book by Ryan Holiday to the departments. And sometimes when I come in, um, they'll be like, Hey, what, like, can you read something today? So sometimes even if I just want to come in and bullshit, they, they'll be like, Sammy, read us something.

They make me do my job sometimes, even when I don't want to. Yeah. So I'll read a passage and then we'll talk about it. So that's one of the platforms that we use to teach is, um, Control your controllables, right? Like, how can you manage your emotions and understand them? And, um, one of the things that the Stoics talk about is a live time or Ryan Holiday talks about is a live time.

And that means that you're actively engaged in your life and you're making decisions based on what you can do instead of complacency. So instead of what he calls dead time, which is you're kind of sitting back and letting life happen to you. So when we formulated our little weird program, what we say is we're training Everyone in the departments to be alive minded to be in an actionable place in their lives where they're making clear decisions and they're making decisions to take action instead of sit back and let things happen.

And we also frame it as like, we don't want you to die, right? We want you to be alive and to take care of being alive. Part of being alive is being alive up in your brain, right? And taking care of your brain. So that's not really an answer to your question, but basically. I, I almost am like, fuck peer teams in general, like, you don't need them if you can If you can teach everybody how to be a peer member, right?

Like why doesn't everybody know how to talk to each other and take care of their brains? And if you don't have somebody that you feel comfortable going to, I get that. Then here's these members that are, are, you know, have been picked by your team to be able to be that person where you're uncomfortable.

But I have to tell you, TJ, they, people come to me now, like because I'm there. It's not that they skip the peer, the peer step, but they, they don't, they come right to me for their problems and they do it in front of each other. You know, so it's not that I have a million one on one sessions with the department.

It's that we're having therapy sessions, whether they know it or not in front of each other at the kitchen table. And we're talking about this shit and it's proactive instead of we're waiting to, Oh my gosh, I'm so bad. I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so burned out. I need to talk to a peer member. It's. I have proactively seen that I'm starting to get down into this place where that's not good, and I'm not taking care of myself.

I need to talk to Sammy, right? And maybe I need to set up a session with her. Or maybe I just want to call Dave and have a conversation with Dave about it, or a coaching session with Dave. Or maybe I want both of them in the session, or maybe me and my wife want both of them, and we do, you know, we do a couple sessions together.

Um, so, um, It's not to say that peer teams aren't important because we have them and we use them, but it's been so cool to see this culture build around. The peer team is so strong and we've worked on so many things that now they're training everybody else how to be a quote unquote peer member. And when a bad call happens, they're, they're doing it without me, right?

Like sometimes I don't even call me though. You know, I have one guy from, um, one of the departments I'm there the most. And he, he's like my, I always call my, like my top, my top star. Cause he's just on top of shit all the time. And he'll be like, Hey, just so you know, Sammy, this call happened. It was pretty fucked up.

I already talked to all the guys. A, B, C, D, E, F, G are the, the ladies and the guys that were on the call. They've been talked to. I'm going to check in with them tomorrow just so you know this happened. Right? And sometimes I don't even need to go and do a debrief because they're on top of it. And they've been taught the skills about how do we talk about it, what do we do afterwards, how do we calm our bodies down.

And if this is staying with you. Set up a coaching session with Sammy. So it's like working itself. I don't know how to explain it.

TJ: Yeah, talk about a force multiplier. Now you're at the point that legitimately it, why need a peer team when the whole department can be a peer? I think that is, that is the ultimate model that we should strive for.

Sammy: It's kind of crazy though. People think we're nuts when we say that, right. But that's literally in all of our contracts. We say everybody should be a peer team member, essentially.

TJ: The amount of conversations that I have had with shift mates, with people that I work with, because I'm not a peer team member, never was, never will be type thing. But we still managed to work through issues and it's like, okay, if give me that training, right, get that other person, the training, and now you just created two more and then four more.

And you're at the point that you don't have to have that clear demarcation of only talk to these folks, robotically peer team type thing. You can talk to anybody you feel comfortable with knowing that they have the skills, the experience, and the knowledge. to help you navigate these issues.

Sammy: And you know, it gets into the weeds about like ethics and making sure that everybody's trained appropriately and all that stuff. So I don't think that there's an abolishment that needs to happen of peer teams, but really your peer team should be elevated to be specializing in this, right? Like, that's what we at this, this department that I'm there, um, I'm there three days a week right now.

Um, What we've started to frame it, because now it's going on year two of this, is that I'm asking all the peer members to pick a specialty. Like, now that we're all here, and we're all kind of like peer members, and we've been elevated to this place, we still need you, because there's still ethical decisions and ways of speaking and counseling support that we need to be following, so we need to continue to do that.

Training the peer members, but also how can we elevate this to a better place now so that we don't say it? We don't need the peer team. How can you do essentially more so they're all this year starting to pick things that they want to specialize in So I like one guy wants to do it like family Family dynamics and how can I be the person when you're having an issue with your spouse or learning relationships?

skills and et cetera, et cetera. And one guy wants to learn more about chaplain, being a chaplain and what does that look like? And how can I be maybe the department's kind of chaplain in that area for spiritual support? You know, and then, um, one of the girls is, uh, the ladies is, she wants to learn about women empowering women in the fire service.

So how can I learn how to be that person for the girls in our department to really elevate them to a place that feels comfortable and et cetera, et cetera. So that's where we're at as far as this. Microcosm of what we built and that's department that alive minded is we're trying to elevate now the peer team members to learn more and to really specialize, to become more coaching coaches instead of just, well, now we don't need you.

TJ: I like it. I, that is something that I never even thought about because I'm still stuck in the peer team versus SISM battle because I have experienced both and most days I just want to nuke SISM from the stratosphere and

Sammy: because it's usually the wrong person. It's usually a person that somebody doesn't know, right? It's a stranger and not that they're not they don't have good skills or clinical skills But we've all been part of those where they go very poorly Right and nobody talks or they or it goes into a very, you know hard like hot wash of everything that happened That's not meant to be it's more of a debrief instead of anything emotional, right, or support.

We actually changed that name too. We just like changing names. So now we call, we call our debriefs, um, Mind Rewinds. So, and why we call them that is because what we say is we're bringing you back to a place, right, in your mind that you need to go back to in a safe way. to talk it out, get through it, connect the synapses, have some emotional space to, um, connect what you felt that now you, that is maybe becoming invasive and then move on from it, right?

So we're going to rewind to move forward. So

yeah, we're just changing it all up.

TJ: You are just, I mean, all words are made up anyway, so you're making up your own and just creating your own language. Speaking of Ryan Holiday, have you ever done the, um, I think it's called, is it the Alive Challenge? 

Sammy: Oh yeah. We're 

TJ: cross off every week? That is a sobering, sobering exercise.

Sammy: Even the daily stoic is like,

just to read that shit every day. Like, you're like, Oh God, I was terrible at that yesterday. You know, like, cool.

TJ: to the meditation on mortality because it happens around the winter months when things start slowing down, when nature kind of retreats and when you have more darkness outside and more introspection and it's kind of like a way of plowing into that, okay.

inevitable mortality that we all face, but sometimes it's hard. And then doing the alive challenge, which for those that you don't know, it's basically a poster that has, it's what, like 80 years worth of weeks. And you fill out every passing week, you fill out another block and another block. And next thing you know, you're looking at this poster that signifies your entire life.

And you're seeing how much you have spent and it makes you

Sammy: It's crazy.

TJ: stop and take a breath and be like, there's a lot of shit left to do. And it kind of like in a forceful way makes you reprioritize what's important to you.

Sammy: Yes, it's perspective, right? It helps with perspective.

TJ: Yeah. That way you're not bogged down in the little bullshit details of, Oh my God, I had to write an ambulance today. It's like, okay, but in the grand scheme of things, does that really matter? Yeah.

Sammy: Definitely eye opening.

TJ: I don't even know where to go next. We have so much like I, I'm a fan of all of this stuff. Okay. Let's just go. Let's let's serve you with an easy one. So I'm a first responder. I am going through shit, but I'm hesitant to talk to anybody to even acknowledge my mental fitness. What advice would you give me?

Sammy: Gosh. Um, stop?

No, I'm just kidding. 

TJ: Are you kidding me?

Sammy: I mean, well, it's hard, right? Because, you know, I think about all of the things that are potentially going on for that person. Right? So who are they talking to? Who is their family members? Do they have somebody to go home? And then if I'm going to give them advice, how am I giving them advice?

I'm giving them advice on this podcast. That's different than if, you know, this person doesn't have any support at their department or they don't have a clinician. But if they do? I would just say like you have nothing to fucking lose. Like just try, right? You do hard things all the time. So do this hard thing.

Um, and if you hate it, you hate it. And it doesn't mean that therapy is going to be your answer. But, You have to break out of that cycle of not doing anything because I think that that's the hardest thing for first responders to get over is they think they have to do this one thing like go to therapy or talk to somebody or, and it's specific and it's, and no, just do something hard, do something different than you normally do great.

If that's therapy, awesome. I'm super proud of you because. I know that it's helpful, and I know that it works, but do something different. People get into ruts, and they get into cycles, and they get into patterns. And so, um, the only way to break that Literally is to do something that's not a part of your cycle or your pattern.

So we always try to frame talking about mental fitness, going to therapy, working on your brain, exercising your mind as it's not weak. Like we always have said it was. It's actually. It requires you to use a lot of courage and strength because essentially it's different than what you are, you believe you're supposed to do.

So it's like we're, you know, we're talking about how breaking out of your comfort zone is weak. Like that doesn't make any sense. It's going to be the strongest thing that you ever had to do. So I guess my advice to them would to be to kind of challenge their own idea of what strength and weakness means because doing something hard is strong. And going to therapy or talking about your brain or being vulnerable in front of somebody, whoever that is, is hard. It's not easy.

TJ: You are super straightforward. You are, you're one of us. You're part of the fire service and you use vulgar language and dark humor to get the point across and to help people. Have you ever run into a situation where that has backfired

Sammy: Oh, yeah, for sure. So I, like I said, you know, I, my upbringing and how I grew up, grew up like I always was kind of trying to find my way, but I was that weird, like a tomboy, super weird, didn't know how to show up. And so when I met. You know, my people, finally, I got to be myself and I just haven't looked back.

Um, and it, I believe it helps me, but not just because, um, I can be vulgar and talk about weird shit, but also because I get to be myself and I don't have to be like, Oh, I'm your therapist today. I just get to be Sammy. And that's been helpful because first responders need Need people to be genuine like they don't want bullshit.

They want reality So I think in that respect it's been super helpful because I show up as myself like i'm never putting a hat on Um, but it definitely has backfired. I luckily I just, I don't, not even luckily, thankfully I have the two departments that I work the closest with are huge proponents and fans of this and we have built a very strong relationship with the two chiefs there and they allow me to be however I'm going to be whenever I'm going to be, which has been very, very helpful.

But, there has been some, uh, members in one of the departments that are more conservative, um, and not necessarily aligned with the swearing or recussing all the time. And, one of them was more conservative. Executive and he did give me feedback that was, um, actually very hard for me to hear because I've, I've really tried to build, um, my life around being myself.

And so it was kind of, um, it felt like, you know, I was getting stabbed in the heart, um, but I did have to take it and I did have to deal with it and basically said, um, that. My cussing can be off putting, um, because of my role. Not because they don't, but because of I'm the therapist. Um, and That sometimes it feels like we're in a comedy show And

um Well, right and so and then the other thing he did say that was really hard for me was that um, he uh, he mentioned that I It's in his eyes, right?

And potentially people on his shift's eyes that I was, um, playing too many roles, right? Like, I see people in therapy so I coach with them and then I come to the stations and I hang out with them and I know their wives and spouses and then with company, um, events, you know, like, uh, parties or things outside of work, I'm invited and then they see me there so that could be, so he said, you know, essentially wearing a lot of these roles is off putting. Which, heard, understood, took the feedback, but like, I'm just gonna be honest, it was really hard for me to hear that because that's the whole point of what I'm trying to do is not have those walls, right? And to not be so black and white about what we're doing, and to be, be real, like, be you guys. And so, so there are gonna, I guess the lesson is there are gonna be people that don't like that.

Sure, right? It's not everybody. I'm not everybody's cup of tea. That's for sure. Um, But I have the backing so I had to kind of take that information talk to Dave about it cry about it because I felt really bad and then you know, I did have a healthy conversation with Um chief chief about it and like is there something I need to do do I need to pivot here?

Like is this and what was really helpful? He was like Be yourself. That's why I hired you So I got what I needed from it, but I also now know that when I'm potentially around people that are less likely to benefit from my realness, that I just need to dial it back a little bit, right? Like I need to just be aware and to, to let more people speak and to not be, you know, not, not be as, um, intense, spicy.

I don't know what the word is. So it's, you know, it was a learning lesson for me, learning lesson for me that there's times and places when I have to tone it down.

TJ: I think that's a skill that all of us struggle with acquiring, but there's a lot of times that we are, we can be way too much and it's important to take. It'd be, it would be so easy for you to take that sheaves feedback and be like, whatever, dude, fuck you, but actually internalizing it. And it might come from like, it happened to you from, from a chief officer, you know, for anybody else could come from a partner, from a friend, 

Sammy: Sure 

TJ: taking the time to internalize and be like, Okay, let's look at this feedback and let's see, do I want to accept it?

And is there a way that I can improve myself from it?

Sammy: And it wasn't coming from a place of like bad intention either, right? Like, from that person's eyes it was to be better for the people that he believed it would be better for, right? So it wasn't like, we don't want you here. It was like, you know, Just, you know, like this could be difficult. So, yeah, and I have to be aware of that because I don't want to turn people off from therapy in general either.

Right? Like, not every therapist is like me, that's for sure.

TJ: Maybe some more should be. Make life a little more interesting and easier for those of us who, um, who might shy away from therapy. So you wear a lot of hats. You just said you do a ton of things that fire chief told you that you do a lot of stuff.

Sammy: Um,

TJ: sane?

Sammy: it's always a work in progress. I'm not perfect at it. And that's actually something that I talk about with the crews a lot is like, I'm a practicer at these things, just like you guys are, I'm not any better than you. I just know the skills. Um, so I am. constantly practicing and pivoting where I'm When I realize I'm not doing good.

Um, I mean basic things that I what I we always preach is do your basic shit like That's it do basic shit. You you have to be Prioritizing your basic body needs right like eating, sleeping, water, routine, exercise, like all the basic shit. So that is foundational for me, um, even when we go on vacation. Even when I'm really busy, like if I have to get up an hour earlier, if I have to go to bed an hour later, I'm getting that stuff done.

Because if I don't do that, I'm terrible. I've suffered with depression since I was a kid, so if I don't manage my foundational stuff, I'm not going to be able to do anything well. So that is really difficult with my schedule because I'm all over the place all the time and I work really hard. I mean, that's the realities.

I work way too much. I have to, I have to pivot that. And I'm starting to learn as the years go by is how do I pivot? The closer I get to departments or people, obviously the more that space that takes up. And so then I have to be like, okay, well, if I'm going to, you know, I have to streamline this. Like I can't see as many individual clients in my private practice anymore.

I have to just focus on my departments or I have to every, every month is a pivot. There's nothing that I'm consistently doing besides taking care of my basic shit. That stays consistent because this world is changing so fast and the needs are changing so fast that I have to pivot with it But my basic shit is every day Even on vacation I get up I work out um Even when i'm busy like that's just it's necessity for me Mm

TJ: So you just mentioned that everything is constantly changing. And, um, what do you see as the, The upcoming trends in mental health, especially as they apply to first responders to the fire service world and to, to, you know, police and military and hospitals. What, what sort of emerging trends are we looking at?

Sammy: Um, well, I think, I hope that the emerging trend is like, you have to be talking about this stuff, like, this has to be a part of your, your procedure, your safety procedures, your, um, training procedures, like, we, we cannot keep waiting for people to, Call a therapist when they're about to kill themselves, right?

Like we have to be more proactive and approach. And I'm seeing that trend at my department. It's like, there's a department, um, not too far from us that, that is going to hire a clinician full time, you know, and I've obviously been doing this for two years now with my departments and they're bringing me on more, you know?

So it's where I'm seeing the trend that they're starting to recognize that mental Needs to be a part of protocol and what they're teaching their crews and how they're implementing support and what that looks like. I think a lot of departments all over the across the board because we work with law enforcement too, um, and dispatch advocates, um, all, all of you guys.

But. Medics, um, but I'm, I'm seeing that there, all the departments are, have already implemented, like here's resources when you need it, right? Here's a list of people that you can go see, but that's it, right? Nobody, and nobody really knows how to do it. Nobody knows what insurance is going to cover. Nobody knows who's going to, all that stuff.

Um, so they have that, but the trend I'm seeing is they're starting to realize that that's not enough and that they need, departments need to be. More involved in giving, in providing, providing services and not just saying here's where you go when you need it.

TJ: I like that.

Sammy: I hope. I mean.

TJ: I think we're going in that right direction because, I mean, you're doing this in your microcosm and we're seeing it places over here. On the East Coast. So that, that gives us that hope that it's that grassroots movement that's starting to, to take hold because I mean, every, every time we hear about a firefighter suicide, it's, it's one too many.

Like I'm still, um, I've talked about it on an episode that I just published with Sean Conant from, um, from Philo apparel, but we knew the same guy. Um, a guy in, um, St. Augustine area. I keep forgetting the county. Uh, I knew the guy. I went to, um, Radnuk school with him. And, got off work and went home and killed his wife and then killed himself.

We're all just like, the fuck, bro? Like, where did that come from? And that's another one that we couldn't save. Another one that got away from us. And that's, that's way too many. And it's one of those things that Go ahead.

Sammy: No, I, I just, I, yeah, it's so messed up. I mean, we do a resiliency training where we just kind of talk about the basic shit. It's like a basic shit training. Like you need a foundation, right? To battle the statistics. And we start with the statistics and we're like, Here's what they are. You know, we pulled the statistics from, um, different, different, uh, websites to show law enforcement and, um, firefighter dispatch EMS, um, suicides.

And we show our communities like you guys are killing yourselves more than you're dying on the line of duty. Right? Like, that's just real. And then, you know, and we'll always say, we'll intervene by saying, Look, we understand that lots of people kill themselves. Civilians kill themselves too. We're not, we're not saying that you're the only group that does.

But what we are, and what we do wanna, what we are saying, what we do wanna make very, very fucking clear, is that you, this community specifically, is sacrificing yourselves to do this job. Right? You are sacrificing your safety to do the job, and that is why suicides are unacceptable. Right? So we're asking you guys, go save us and protect us, no matter what the situation is.

And you guys are killing yourselves on top of the potential that you will die on the line of duty. That's, to me, it's like, just ridiculous. Uh huh.

TJ: It's heartbreaking. We all get in and we know that, okay, fires and freak events and you know, that stuff could take us out and the worst part is realizing that it's all the other stuff, the suicides, the cancer, the like the mentally everything else that we don't expect, the heart attacks, like the stuff that we never expected to have to contend with.

It's like, oh, no, no, like chances of dying in a fire. Yeah. Not great, but chances of me coming home and suck starting a shotgun way higher than I expected.

Sammy: Three times more likely.

TJ: Jesus Christ.

Sammy: Your department is three times more likely in a given year to have a suicide than a line of duty death.

TJ: It's, it's gut wrenching. It is. It's for me, it really, it really hit hard talking to a couple of folks after a line of duty death and even a couple of folks who weren't even in the department after the fact who have, I had one, I've told this story before who came to me and said, Hey, thank you for the conversation we had.

Back in March, April of last year because I was gonna take my life the following day. And I'm like, I had no clue. I was probably a whole like an absolute dick the entire conversation. Oh my God. Or maybe that's what they needed. I don't know. But it um, it feels like that. evil lurking around every corner that it's just like, guys, we're, we're dodging it for now, we're dodging it for now, but there's going to come a day that we can't dodge it anymore.

And we should be able to, to, like, we shouldn't have to deal with that.

Sammy: exactly. Exactly.

TJ: Let me hit you with my favorite question as we're wrapping up. And one that I didn't put on the list that I sent you.

Sammy: Oh damn. I'm just kidding.

TJ: What is the one failure that you cherish the most?

Sammy: Oh gosh. Um, Hmm. Failure that I cherish the most I, I don't know. It's hard to answer that because I feel like I've failed so many different times in my life. Um, Um, but it's hard for me to think about them as failures, I guess, because I'm where I am now, right? And all of those little things that have happened have become successes in some way.

Like if I didn't fail, I wouldn't have learned anything. So it's hard for me to pick one because I have so many. Um, but I would just say, you know, like in my, Going through like my own mental, you know, struggles like with my depression and with, um, my eating disorder and with the struggles that I've had in relationships in the past, like those were failures, right?

I mean, I was sick, like I couldn't work. Um, you know, my first, my first marriage failed. Um, like those are legitimate failures and being a patient, um, of mental illness, right? And being a someone who, you know, is, has been married twice, right? Like this, Dave is my second husband. Uh, those have taught me skills how to Not go down those paths again.

So, those are the skills that I bring to the table when I come to the fire station and talk to my brothers and sisters and hang out, right? Like, I can be like, yep, been there, done that. You know, failed at that. And That not only gives me the ability to present skills in ways that me and Dave have worked through problems now because I, we don't want our marriage to fail and because we've learned from our past, but also now I have the ability to connect on a level that's, like I said, you know, you said I'm broken too.

And so now we're equal. Right? Like, your struggles, my struggles, we all, we all have them, and so, yes, there are failures and things that I've, I've gone through, but they've given me the ability to bond with my community, and not be perfect, because I'm the furthest thing from that.

TJ: Sammy, where can we find you? Where can we connect with you?

Sammy: I knew you were going to ask me this and I was like, I got to look because I don't even know the exact handle. I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure our, um, our company's page is, or on Instagram, we just have an Instagram page and it's elevate underscore team Freda. So it's our last name. Um, and we just say that cause we call each other a team.

And then our website is. Elevatecoaching. team. So those are the two places if you're interested in learning about this crazy shit that we're doing at departments, um, I would go to. And then I do have my own Instagram page and my therapy, it's not really therapy page, it's just Sammy page, but it's um, at, it's Good Rain Therapy.

So, raining outside, the good rain. And the reason why we call, I call it that is because, um, believing in just that, you know, Even though it's raining and we might look at it as something bad, that rain is, you know, we can look at it as good. And what's the perspective change that we can have about life and outlook.

So those are the, I guess the three places that you can, you can find us. Hmm.

TJ: Listen, this has been. eye opening. This has been incredible. It's, it's an awesome journey. And I feel that even just coming off a therapy session earlier today, I still got a ton from it. And I know that since I did the rest of our community will get a lot out of it. And we will, we're still continuing that fight against, um, the evils of that, that mental health can wreak on our people.

So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. And, um, We'll definitely do this again in the future. We're going to have Dave on at some point. And, um, yeah, we'll continue this, this battle for our people.

Sammy: Thanks TJ

Thanks for what you're doing. It's been super cool to to meet you and talk to you and laugh with you, so I appreciate it a lot. Hello friends. Hopefully you enjoyed these two episodes with Sammy. Especially the fact that she brings in. Not just a fire spouse perspective, but somebody who has had to deal with our own trauma. Because it's so easy for us to take these therapists and just kind of write them off and say, no, no, no, you don't understand you. 

TJ: Haven't been in my shoes. Well, homegirl has been in our shoes. Sometimes vicariously through Dave, but she's had to deal with her own shit. So she knows. On a ground level, what we deal with. And is obviously making strides with Dave and with the departments that they work with. To help improve our mental health, which is ultimately one of the tenants of what we do around these parts. It's just making sure that our brains and our minds are not our biggest enemies. So thank you for taking the time to listen to these episodes with Tammy. 

She's awesome. Dave is awesome. He is next on my podcast. Hitlist if you will, because I really need to pick his brain. But without further ado, let us get to the patron. Shout out if you're new here. Every single time that we get a new patron that subscribes that pledges to join the community. We give them a shout out on the podcast. It's important. To shout out those people and to let the world know that they are taking the step. To be the best firefighter that can be to join that community of aggressive firefighters. And to take their trading to the next level. So today a special shadow goes out to Andre from Atlanta, Georgia. Greg from Akron, Ohio. Nicholas from Hackensack, New Jersey. And Paul from St. 

Petersburg, Florida. Folks. Thank you so much for believing in this community for joining. For putting in the work to become a better firefighter. You are the reason that the fire service will always be in good hands. You're the reason why citizens will always trust us. As always be good. Be safe. Catch you later.