068. Fires Are The Easiest Part of the Job: Bobby Eckert [Part 1]

In this raw and real conversation, Bobby Eckert opens up about his roots, leadership, and the gut-punch layoff that nearly derailed it all. From childhood drills to navigating Camden’s chaos, this is a story about resilience, fatherhood, and the drive that keeps him going even when they try to take away the uniform.

What You’ll Learn:

• What growing up with a fire chief dad taught Bobby about leading with integrity
• How layoffs nearly ended his career - and why he came back stronger
• The firehouse smells, sights, and lessons you never forget
• A leadership style built on trust, distance, and letting your crew figure it out
• Why empathy and public trust are core to serving - even on “BS” calls

If you’re a firefighter who wants to lead with grit, bounce back from setbacks, and serve with heart — this one’s for you.

Transcript

TJ: Welcome back everybody to the Keep the Promise Podcast. Let me tell you, today's guest is someone that I have admired for years. He's a fireman's fireman and a leader who doesn't just talk the talk. He walks it, lives it, and teaches others about it. The first time I watched them, the first time I took a class with him, it was years ago at the Art of Fire Manship Days in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

I sat in on his lecture and I also took his hands-on training class, and it was like trying to take a sip water out of a fire hose, but in the best way possible. This man doesn't hold back. His lessons are raw and they are exactly the real lessons that firefighters need to hear whether they want to or not.

Since then, I've gotten to know some of the people that he works with. And they are top-notch individuals, which speaks volumes about the kind of culture and team that he's continuing to build. And honestly, I've followed his journey from afar, taking notes and trying to soak up as much as I can because this guy has a way of lighting a fire in everyone who listens to him today.

He's bringing that same energy, and I could not be more pumped. He's a second generation firefighter. A captain with over 20 years in the fire service and one of the most unapologetically authentic voices in the game today. If you haven't already guessed, I am talking about none other than Bobby Eckert.

So buckle up because this is gonna be good. 

Narrator: Welcome to the Keep the Promise Podcast, where we help build resilient and well-rounded firefighters.

TJ: Bobby, motherfucking accurate. You are here on the Keep The Promise Podcast and I am pumped because we're gonna cover a bunch of stuff ranging from some of the stuff that I took to heart from Fire Manship days 2019.

And if you can actually see here, I don't know how well you can read the dates, but it says 5 16 19. I'm pretty sure.

Bobby: Wow. It was a long time ago.

TJ: time ago, dude. What? 

Was six years ago. Yeah.

Yeah. Back before the world ended. So, we'll

Bobby: Yeah.

TJ: things and, uh, we'll talk about your leadership experience.

And again, I'll try to weave some of the questions from the stuff that I remember you talking about, but let us get started. You're a second generation firefighter, right?

Bobby: Yes, yes.

TJ: was in. And, um, tell me a little bit about your upbringing and how it shaped how you view the fire service and the path that you ultimately took.

Bobby: So I, I, it's so funny, I, I say this all the time. When I was a kid, I was an only child growing up. So I didn't,

TJ: I.

Bobby: I didn't, um, my out, I didn't have any kids in my ne I mean, my ne when I say my neighborhood like a three block radius, I didn't have any kids. So I was just like, outside all the time doing things by myself.

Whether that's good, bad, or different. I don't know if that makes me weirdo today. I don't know. 'cause I really don't mind being by myself at all. I find like a, a serenity in it. So I I, it's funny you think like, man, like is everybody's dad a fireman? I don't know. It just, it was my dad's job. I, I didn't really pay much attention to it as a child.

My mom was extremely supportive of my father's career, extremely supportive. So, and they had the worst schedule in the world when I was a kid. Uh, it was six day works, 24 hours off, six night works three days off. So, yeah, I

TJ: Wow.

Bobby: small town, small town fire department. So it, it, it was, I would see my dad sporadically at different times.

And then it was, we lived in the town, um, that my dad worked in and my dad would, my, my mom would either drive my dad to work or he would take the car or we'd be home, whatever. But, you know, I was, had the opportunity to go to my, the firehouse to see my dad. But he was working and, you know, he was, he was doing shit.

It wasn't until he got promoted the chief were, it kind of really. I started seeing a different aspect of, of him in, uh, my father has, both my parents have amazing qualities. It's, they're, they couldn't be more different. And it's kind of funny. Uh, but I'm very much like my mother with my personality and my stubbornness and, uh, my, how eccentric I am.

My father's nothing like that. Uh, however, they, you know, they, they mesh really well. It's very interesting. And if you would meet 'em, if you met my parents, so my parents go and food shop at purpose, on purpose where we food shop at work to run into firefighters like, 'cause they're like in their eighties.

And people at work will run into my parents and then they'll come and see me. They're like, we totally get it now. Why? Why you are how you are. Which I think is hilarious. 'cause I, it's true. I'm like a, I'm, I'm a cut of both them, but it was. You know, just seeing my dad, he's just, he's a very natural born leader.

And I don't know where he got that from. He wasn't in the military, but he wasn't, I don't, you know, he wasn't really in a leadership role in the military, but, um, he just, he has a knack for it and he has a knack for people and treating people really well. And fi always finding the good in somebody in some way, shape or form.

And I think that's the biggest thing that stuck with me out of that, other than, you know, going to fires and seeing that stuff and getting, know the guys and the smells of that time. It was the eighties, man. You got like cigarette smoke and stale beer upstairs and the oil, and I mean, that, that smell, that, that was the eighties firehouse.

I'll never forget it. I haven't smelled it in a while. And when I do smell it, I'm like, Ooh, this is exciting. Like, I like to bottle it up and make it a candle or something. But yeah, I, I think it's just seeing how my father was with people is kind of something that, that Drew really drew me in. It first was, and it was not so much like the camaraderie, the brotherhood, it was just more of like.

How people treated him and how he treated people. And my dad, since I've been a child, has always given me like life lessons on people, um, from race, gender, sexuality, all that stuff. I mean, my mom, my mom's best friend growing up, her brother was a drag queen. And when I was a child, my mom would take me to the drag queen event when my dad was on night work.

So I, it's, I never, I, I've always been in, in, in a, in a, in a place where my parents always taught me to judge the human being and how they treat you and how they act towards others. That, that's, that was a big thing growing up in my house. And it's something that, that I try to push on my children as well.

TJ: So you picked that up, obviously from, from your father, and there's. When you talk about how you, you really paid attention to way that he treated people and treating them well, and that's something that's going to segue eventually into some of the quotes that I remember from, from Fire Manship days.

And a couple of the things that you mentioned you did, that actually stuck with me. You know, six plus years later you followed his path, right? Was it one of those things like, Hey, straight outta high school, did you start volunteering or,

Bobby: I got into the junior fire program. It was more of just, they were starting one and I think, if I remember correctly, it was like maybe they didn't have a lot of people apply, so I kind of like showed up with some friends and we were like in, and my dad had retired. He was a year retired, he was done, um, but he was still involved in, it was a combination fire department, so he was still, you know, a member of the fire company.

And, uh, some of the people I brought are still, they're career firemen today. Like they're, you know, one, one guy's still there in colonies, wood. Uh, another guy's, um, he works for my business and it, he works in a ladder company in West Philly. So, I mean, there, there's guys, it, it had an impact. It was just, I, I think it was, and everybody's got that.

If people that were in the juniors, like my son just joined the juniors. Um, and if it gets you, they, everybody has like a very similar story of the journey of like the people. It's more, it, it, obviously it was the work of, of, of being a firefighter, but I think a lot of, I think a lot of the fire service doesn't realize how much human beings have impact on other human beings, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent.

But if there's like some positivity around there, whatever way that is, or like something cool is really happening and it's like kind of contagious. You, you kind of flow and flow in a direction and, and then you hang out the firehouse and you get to learn like people's lives and like. Like we, like we almost all work for public works.

Like, because that's where they, that's where they, they hired most of their people from, from the volunteer firehouse. And that was the closest thing to being a career fireman back then. You could be, 'cause if there was a fire in town, you, you stop what you were doing and you went to the fire as a member.

So it, it puts you in, it puts you in a position where you see a different side of life that maybe people don't see, or you see opportunities or people come and grab you and say like, I took this career path into this and it didn't work out for me. Check this out, check this out, check this out. So it's more of like, if you're open-minded and listen to people and it kind of pushes you in a direction.

So that's kind of like how it started. And I kind of like, I've, I've said it a million times before and I'm sure people listen to this. They've listened to me before. They're probably tired of hearing it, but I knew I would always be involved in this fire service. I, I did that. I always had that feeling. I just didn't know at what capacity it would, I.

Grabbed me and it grabbed me hard, like hard. And when I was a kid, my dad would, I would always, you know, we would, he would do drills of me and things like that and, and show me things. Um, but again, I just, that was my, I didn't, I didn't think anything of it. And, uh, I, I mean, I was really into other things outside of the fire service, hockey being one of 'em.

Um, you, I love gonna shore and surfing boogie board and things like that. Um, my dad's, my dad's hobbies and my hobbies are totally different. Uh, 'cause I have no patience. He has patience, like he loves fishing and stuff. Like I, I, I would rather do anything else in the world than fish. But it, it's just, it, it was in a put in a position to where it just sucked you in.

And it, there was a lot of good people that helped me, suck me in, in a good way.

TJ: What were some of the drills that stick out the most in your mind that your dad would teach you?

Bobby: Uh, my dad's very mechanical, very, very mechanical. So, uh, you know, a lot of mechanical advantage, uh, with tools. Uh, leverage, things like that. My dad loves, uh, pump operations, so, you know, pump stuff, water stuff, uh, a lot of driving, a lot of driving navigation, north, southeast, west. One ways, this, that, the other, um, search stuff, we would talk search as a kid, your visibility, stuff like that.

But again, I was a kid. You're only, you're only processing so much information.

TJ: It's pretty awesome because looking back, you, you must, must be super thankful that he set you up with a foundation that would eventually help you build up into being a firefighter and a company officer. Because some of it's the

Bobby: I,

TJ: for example, you go to a lot of people nowadays like, Hey, head North on whatever road.

If they're not in the fire service, they're like. I'm not

Bobby: well, even in the fire service, these, these young kids don't know what a compass is, trust me. But yeah, I, I am thankful. I really am the one, the number one thing I'm thankful for. Um. Some people don't. They're like, well, I can't believe this. But my dad would, when I joined the fire service, when I was like, even like 14 and then Juniors, my dad walked, he was like, this is your journey.

Have a nice life.

TJ: Interesting

Bobby: He did not, he did not micromanage. Now he came back and taught like fire behavior and things like that, and if I had a question, he absolutely would ask it. And he was very proud, especially, you know, when I was still, when I was on the volunteer fire department in town, he would come to fires and he would come out, he, I would see him in a meeting, things like that.

He would pop in for a drill night and, and, and bullshit. And he was there every different coffee, but he did not get involved in any of my nothing. I was their property now, not his.

TJ: dude. That's, that's super unique that he let you have his own journey and. We see it often that it, it turns into a family affair. Nothing wrong with that, but at some point you have to let your people and your kids especially go off and, and learn things on their own.

Bobby: They, you, you get you from being a father. I can tell you that I can only show my kids so much and sometimes I learn things better from different people. And I, I, I chose to do the same thing on my, my son. I dropped off the firehouse. I know all them guys at the firehouse. I go to their Christmas party, but I don't, I go inside and pick him up if he's not answering his phone.

'cause these kids never answered the phones. But that's about, that's about my involvement.

TJ: Wonderful. I like that. I like that. you got involved in the, in the local volunteer firehouse and a couple twists and turns, and you ended up in Camden.

Bobby: I did.

TJ: drew you to such a place? And I say that because my first exposure to Camden was years ago when there was, I think it was like a discovery channel or history channel.

Bobby: It was, uh, NBC Dateline. NBC.

TJ: one where they were talking about all of the like insane security features and you guys had like

Bobby: Yeah. We had it, was

TJ: and

Bobby: It was, oh, that, yeah, that, that was probably, um, that was probably 2010. There was one back in 2001 when they hired the first female firefighters, uh, Jennifer Barientos and Renee Mohammad, who were, uh, still on the job. Uh, NBC did like a, a special on the fire department and their journey was pretty, pretty neat.

You can actually check it out on YouTube. That's like early two thousands, 2001. Um, you'll see some really hard hitters up in there. Some good dudes.

TJ: so all that to say that, like I said, from from my end looking at Camden, I was like, this place must be off the chain. Is that what drew you to it? What? How'd you end up there?

Bobby: I did. It's a town next to me.

TJ: Okay.

Bobby: Uh, it's a town, well, well not right now where I live, but growing up it was a town next to me. Um, like every other, um, industrial town on the, on the east coast. It, it fell into hard economic times. And I mean, you can go up and down the, the east coast and find a very similar towns.

It's only 14 square miles, nine with land. The rest is water. Right. So, but it's densely populated, so it's, they all had that decline where they had a lot of fire duty and it was really literally right next door to me. So it was that. My mom, my mom got, my mom worked for the Camden County Sheriff's Department, uh, in the Internal Affairs Unit.

And she was a transcriber. And my father would go pick her up from work sometimes, not all the time, like maybe on Fridays or whatever if he, he got like a half day and Camden had like slang green fire apparatus and I thought it was like the coolest shit ever. I, I would ride my bike around, like, to try to like buff fires on the border.

And I, it was just, I, it was there, it was right in front of me. So it was, it, it gave me that draw early on because of that, there was a residency requirement to get hired there, and that definitely deters people from going there. And it's something that I chose to just, the, the problem with the state of New Jersey is you have to declare residency from the city.

You want to the town or city you wanna work in, and you have to put all your eggs in one basket. So it's, it's kind of like a, um, a roulette wheel, what's gonna happen, right? And, and then you waste time and there was a hiring freeze. It was, you know, I was, when the list came out, we, we got hired right as the list was gonna expire.

Like we were getting ready to retest. So you put all your eggs in one basket and it, it happened. I'm very gracious and I have no regrets, um, at all. Even when we got laid off, it still, I, I actually look at it as, as, as one of the biggest positives in my life now, not then,

TJ: Right. Tell me more about that. 'cause you've, you've mentioned it a couple times than the trainings that you've done.

Bobby: um, you know, it was political. It was Chris Christie and I'm not going to, you know, go down that political road. But there's, there's, there's a bunch of cities in the city cam that are under the Department of Community Affairs and their state co controlled, they, they, they make up their budget from state funding 'cause they don't have the tax base.

So Camden's one of them. And it was a lot going on in the state with the, uh, trying to overhaul the pension system and the health benefits and things like that. And there was a whole bunch of police stuff going on and they dissolved the police department and made it a county fire department, or, I'm sorry, police department.

And, but then again, the county police department only polices, canned, I, none in my business, but they laid, they got rid of the whole police department one day gone. And then they. Took 65 firefighters. Um, and this, when I say 65, it was, uh, I, I don't know how it might've been more so, 65 hit the street initially laid off, but there was demotions all the way down every rank except for chief of department.

So, you know, deputy chiefs went down to battalion, battalion, went down to captain, captain, went down to firefighter. It was a very dark time in our, in our fire department's history because of that. And for whatever reason, I, I don't know why, but there was a tremendous amount of fire duty at that time. And so it was, you know, you didn't, there was no clear, it was so bad.

The climate was so bad politically, you didn't know what was happening. Like if you were gonna get your job back. Like there was no, there was no crystal ball to tell you what, what the future would hold. So it was like kind of ride the wave and see what happens. And my whole recruit class gone. 30, 34 of us gone and.

I got, I got brought back in about eight months, eight and a half months. And I believe it was eight and a half months. I could be wrong, could be seven and a half months. I'm sorry, I, it's was so long. I forget the, it was 14 years ago now, but, um, the, there I had guys in my recruit cast were laid off for 18 months and it was, it just, I don't, I don't, it's actually the only time my father and I ever got in like a really extreme argument because like, he's like, this'll never happen.

And I'm like, dad, it's happening. He is like, they don't lay off firemen. Sure. Shit. They did. And it, it was tough. It, it was really, really tough. And there was, when I, when I went to get hired in Camden, I took a bunch of tests in other cities and I got, I got called for a bunch of other cities. And so there was like, like, ah, shit.

Did I, did I do the, did I make the right decision? Right? And at the time I was married with a, with a baby and another one on the way. And it, it was just a, I mean, you wanna talk about a mental explosion of not knowing. And the only, like, I learned very quickly, very quickly, the only trade that I truly know is firefighting, because I had to go get a job, like, like unemployment.

I remembered, I remember we went for unemployment, uh, when the guy came for unemployment. It's, I laugh about it now, but like, I, I'm surprised the guy made it out alive at the union meeting. He's like, yeah, um, it'll be about $230 a week. We're like, what? Like it was, and I, I like, I went home crying. Like I had to tell my wife at the time, like, this is what is happening.

And, you know, there was implica, people were getting people lost, houses, cars, marriages. I mean, it affected, I, I, I lost that marriage and that was one of the biggest things that, that, that was part of that. Uh, well, there's a lot, but I, you know, there was a lot going on, but I, I, you know, I was, I was doing odd jobs trying to bartend because I knew how to bartend.

Um. A couple people I know that, that were in the trades. I'm like, yo, can I come labor? And they're like, I gotta pay you more than who I already have. And it's not ha like, no, it, it sucked. It absolutely sucked. However, coming back to it, uh, and looking back on it, the resilience that it unknowingly gave me, it, it, it was astounding.

It really was.

TJ: mentioned that you're not that much of a patient person, so

Bobby: No,

TJ: have been basically being force fed patients and having to, you know.

Bobby: I was obsessed with getting my job back. It was a me, it was meeting another guy. We, we were meeting any politician who would see us. We were running numbers, we were just doing everything we could possibly do. We were Oprah and stuff. We were, I mean, we were getting wild trying to figure this out because the state union at the time.

Were like, we don't come down to South Jersey. Like, you know, it was a whole thing. And that, that turned into a whole situation. Um, you know, with the union president at the time, guy rest, the whole nice guy. I don't wish any ill will on anybody, but at the time, him and I were not friendly at all. So it was, it was a lot.

It was a lot. And I don't wish on anybody, but I'll tell you what, looking back on it, I, it, I'm, I'm actually very fortunate to have faced that adversity. Not only at the age I was at, but the time of the job I was in. You know, I wasn't invested in the pension. There was, there was a lot, there was so many factors wrapped around it.

TJ: You just knew the path that you wanted to take and you said, you know, hell or high water. That's the way that I'm going.

Bobby: Well, if you take something from me, I'm gonna want it back.

TJ: Is this something, is this one moment early on that that solidified your career decision? Because I feel that so many of us would face that similar adversity and say like, you know what, ain't my thing. Like maybe I should just step away. Was this like this just did it. You're like, you know, that's it.

I'm, I'm going to do this forever.

Bobby: Ye Well, yes. I mean, I wanted to be a can of farmer. I didn't, I didn't know I would veer off in other directions and do other things in a fire service. I just knew I'm the type of person, two things guaranteed. If you tell me I can't do it, that is the worst thing to tell me because I'm gonna be obsessed with doing it.

Like I'm tell it doesn't matter what it is. Like if you can't climb Mount Everest, well, guess what? Motherfucker, I'm trying, like, you just told me I can't do it. I'm gonna figure it out whether I die trying, I'm gonna do it. And again, if, if you forcefully take something from me or you forcefully come after me about something, I am, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I am going for the throat and come back at you.

I can't help it. It's like instinctual.

TJ: I love that. I think that's something that, that we need, that we need in the culture of the fire service because it's that

Bobby: people get hurt feelings, so you can't do that.

TJ: hashtag 2025, and

Bobby: Yes.

TJ: takes us perfectly into now where we wanna talk about leadership and mentorship. You've been in this game for what, over 20 years at this point?

Bobby: Yeah, I mean it's, I, I reported for the juniors like January of the first week of January, like it was like 97, so

TJ: Geez. Yeah,

Bobby: Yeah, I know

TJ: a

Bobby: mold, I just, I just turned 42 yesterday, so I'm like,

TJ: Oh, happy belated birthday

Bobby: thanks man. I appreciate you.

TJ: So you've, you've been around for a while and you've been a captain for how long now?

Bobby: It'll be nine years February 2nd.

TJ: Tell me Bobby's views on leadership within the fire service. How do you define it? How do you show it? How do you help other people underneath you build their leadership potential?

Bobby: It's a great question. I've thought about it since I've read it on your sheet. Um. Yeah, I don't, I don't know if I can give you like a clear cut, definitive answer. I can tell you this. I think the best leaders are the ones that unknowingly think they're leading. I don't look at myself as a leader. I don't see that like, and I think one of the biggest problems with leadership is, especially in a fire service, people look to outside entities for leadership guidance.

And that's fine. Maybe you'll be able to pick up a trait or two, but it's, if you can't make it applicable to firefighting, then it's a little different, I think because the hardest part to, when I first got promoted, I could tell you that I was like, I'm ready to go. Like let's do this. Gimme a fire. I want a fire.

I want a fire. And I went from the busiest fire company, which I'm back at now, to um, a busy company, but it wasn't busy for fires and on a group I was never on before. I didn't really know everybody there. And I found out right away that like, fires are the easiest part of the job. It's, it's managing human beings and personalities and um, everything else in between that kind of can get you going in different directions.

And I, I think it's when you realize that you're an intermediate, like you're middle management, like you are middle management, so you're an intermediate between whoever your fire administration is and the troops. Like you're the one that's, you're the one that's in between you, you're the Turkey on the Turkey sandwich, right?

So like you, you, you have to be ready to be squeezed and you have to be ready to take it from both ends. And I think some people try too hard and make it too much harder than it needs to be. Like, that's cool, man. Like, you're the boss, you're the lieutenant, you're the captain. Like, that's great. You, you took a test.

If you did and you earn that, or however you got that spot, I'm, I'm happy for you, but. Bro, like these guys you're working. Like I work for my guys. I, I, it, they're, they're my greatest resource. They're it, but I'm, I'm like, I'm a very hands off person. I don't, I don't get involved in a lot of things that maybe other people get involved in.

Um, I have, there's a lot to do in a day, in a 24 hour shift on inspections, you know, pre-plans, this, that, and the other training require training, training that you don't want to even, any, any part of, but you gotta go do it. Right? And then runs on top of that, then eating lunch and dinner. Like, I'm pro I'm eating lunch at lunchtime and I'm eating dinner at dinnertime.

There's no, there, I don't care what we're doing. Like if it, if it, if we're doing, if it's like, yo, we need A-S-C-B-A drill, or we're eating lunch, bro, we're eating lunch. Because if I don't eat, I'm gonna veer off and I'm gonna be a weird guy. I'm gonna be like Danny DeVito in the Snickers commercial, like, you need to get me, you gotta get food in my belly.

Right? So it's. I think leadership is understanding that you are there for the people, not only the people that are, are in your organization. I think it's the people that call 9 1 1 because we are a public entity. We are tax payer funded people. Call 9 1 1 and rely on us. So like you're there for a multitude of people.

If you think the people that work for you are there for you, you're gonna have an epic failure.

TJ: That takes us back to that one quote that I love so much that you've mentioned back in 2019. People love us, don't let them down.

Bobby: They do. It's, I, I say it all the time when I teach. We just had Christmas, right? So anybody who, who is gonna listen to this, and I appreciate you listening. If you're a parent and you're at a store with your child, I. And some random dude comes up and touches your child, you're gonna be in jail for simple assault, right?

It's gonna happen. Meanwhile, it's Christmas time. How in, in any town, USA, how does Santa Claus arrive on, around the town, right? On a fire engine. And what do we do? We take our kids and hand them to firefighters, strangers to strangers. If people trust us that much, why wouldn't we give them the best absolute product that we possibly could give of what we have to give it to 'em?

That's how I look at that.

TJ: Right, and that product being the best service that we can provide to the community.

Bobby: At and, and, and, and extremely nonjudgmental service as well, because, and then I'm not talking about like, uh, gender, race, or creed, any of that stuff I'm talking about like, listen, we know the public doesn't know what we know. They don't have our training. They don't know that, so. When you go at two in the morning for a gas leak or a water leak or a co run or something mundane that it's might be the dumbest thing that you're like, we've all been there, we've all gotten in the rig and just laughed.

Like, that guy's a fucking idiot. But we can't let them know that. We have to show them that, like there's, there has to be an empathetic approach to, to how we, to how we do this. Remember, there's tactical misjudgments on the fire ground and the fire department burns the frigging house to the ground and the homeowner shows up to the firehouse with a hogie tray and says, thank you for your service.

That's the thing. So

TJ: Yeah, that's a, that's a gut punch. When, when that sort of stuff happens, you're like, dude, like, thank you, but we're still beating ourselves up for that one. Let's

Bobby: it happens.

TJ: what you talked about. When it comes to basically not feeling that leader, like you're not in charge of them, you're, you are hands off. And again, I go back to something that you mentioned two things. The first one that really stuck with me is you said that your crew likes to go out, you know, a couple times, like maybe a month, I don't know how often, but they'll go hit the bar first thing in the morning right after work. you mentioned that you'll show up or whenever they're there, whatever time of the day, you'll hang out for a couple minutes and then you'll put some money in for their tab and make your exit.

Because even though you're part of the crew, still not there. And that sort of hands off approach is something that, that really piques my interest because you don't see it a bit in when, when it comes to fire officers,

Bobby: I, it you, you gotta like, here's the thing. I look at it like this. Do I want my people to follow my instruction? Yes, I do. I, I, I absolutely do. However, I want them to follow my lead. Meaning, if I'm going in a direction, I want them to want to go in my direction. Not because they have to, because they want to, because they know that's the, that's the most advantageous place for us.

And I also found that if you can be a little more hands-on, I'm telling you right now, we eat dinner at 6 30, 7 o'clock at night. I go do, I eat dinner, I try to do a dish. These guys I work with rip every sponge and whatever outta my hand and shove me outta the kitchen. I go do my nighttime paperwork and I am in bed, dude, in bed, sound asleep by eight 15.

Done. Done. Why? Because, well, I, I get the best sleep to fire us, which you might find hilarious. And I could talk about that if you want.

TJ: Yes.

Bobby: Um. But I, I find it healthy to not be around them. Like if, if they want to talk shit about me, I think it's healthy because maybe this guy's got a problem with me on something that is very indirect and he brings it up to the whole crew and they can talk about it.

And it's not a problem anymore. They don't need me there. Like I look at like the senior man to step in for the firehouse stuff, right? And, you know, run a drill or, or whatever. And I don't mind doing the training, but I, I, I think a senior man should, should play a bigger role in that situation. I am there to talk on the radio, do the reports, work the pedals, and make tactical judgements.

That's how I look at it. And obviously train firefighters and make sure they're there, but I don't need to be up in their, their stuff on the, on the everyday, all the time. Like, I don't need, I don't need to be there. Uh, they don't, they, I know I, I get made fun of for my favorite TV show, so I know they're not gonna watch my favorite TV show, so I'm gonna go enjoy that by myself, right?

Like, 'cause I don't get to enjoy it at home. Every TV in my house is taken by a FRI child, so it's, you know,

TJ: Paw Patrol and Bluey. Um,

Bobby: blue. I mean, it doesn't, it, it's not even that they're gaming, they're streaming, they're doing all kinds of shit.

TJ: right.

Bobby: But I, I, I just, I value my time in the firehouse because I, I lead a busy life outside of the firehouse from children to work to teaching. And if I can get a little bit of downtime, I take at advantage of it.