072. There Are Two Types of Senior Men: Which One Are You? [Part 2]

You can build something incredible and still serve.

 In Part 2, Mike gets real about growing Frontline Optics while staying grounded in firefighter values. He shares the emotional highs and gut checks of going all-in on a brand, how he manages burnout, and why giving back to the fire service is built into his business. If you’ve ever felt torn between your calling and your next move, this one hits hard.

What You’ll Learn:

• The moment Mike knew it was time to leave the fire service, and how he handled it
• Why firefighter grit is your superpower when building a business
• How Frontline Optics supports firefighter mental health through nonprofit giving
• What actually happens after you step away from the job
• How to grow a mission-driven brand without losing your identity

If you’re a firefighter who wants to leave the job better than you found it - and build something meaningful after - this one’s for you.

Grab a pair of firefighter-built sunglasses at Frontline Optics, then check out our training tools at keepthepromisefire.com.
Subscribe, share, and keep the promise - in service and beyond.

Transcript

TJ: Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Mike Attenberg, founder of Frontline Optics and Living proof that Firefighters can thrive beyond the job. In this episode, we go deep into the reality of starting a business with zero experience, fighting through imposter syndrome, and dealing with the silent critics when you walk away from the fire service.

Mike drops tactical advice for any firefighter thinking about a side hustle, and he doesn't sugarcoat it. This is about getting punched in the face and pushing forward. Anyway, we talk wins, failures, dark energy and the mindset it takes to build something that lasts. So if you're feeling stuck or scared to jump, this one's gonna light a fire.

Let's get into it.

Narrator: Welcome to the Keep the Promise Podcast, where we help build resilient and well-rounded firefighters.

Mike: Yeah, I mean, um, there's, uh, there's like data overload, right? Like the fear of like, I don't know enough. Um, and I'm gonna get para, what is it? Paralysis by analysis. I'm just gonna like, keep learning. And every time I'm learning something new, it contradicts something else that I learned. So wait, now I need to dig more on that.

And now you contradicted what you just learned before and so now you need to dig more on that. And next thing you know, a year goes by and you haven't taken a single step. Um, so you know, you, you gotta just do it right, like. I know a ton about the eyewear industry now. I knew nothing about the eyewear industry.

When I bought 300 pairs of sunglasses and decided to start selling sunglasses, I knew nothing. Right? As I went through the process, I learned as I went, I had to pivot. I, you know, learned about different components, different manufacturing processes, different materials, um, different places to source different like, like everything.

And now all of that knowledge is there from experience that I'm able to apply to my future decisions. But if I hadn't ever taken that first step, I never would've made it. So, um, don't get that paralysis right? You need to just leap out from the fear and understand that the only way for you to like learn is to forge your own path.

And that's, that's building, right? Entrepreneurs are builders. We're different than the norm. We're going out on our own. We might be on a, a multitude of different paths with some periods of like forging through the brush. And that's just what you gotta do and learn from it and take that feedback as you go and build the Rolodex of information in your mind that you can apply.

So, um,

TJ: I think there's a quote by Alex Hormo, and I'm probably gonna butcher it, but it always sticks in my head that he just says, you have to step into the arena and get punched into the face. There's no getting around it. 

And I, I look back at some of the friends that I have, there's, there's one that's been talking about starting a business and every time we talk it's like, oh yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure out which state I'm gonna set up the LLC and, and I'm over here like, dude, that is literally like such a non-issue.

Just start, just figure something out that you can sell and then you have money to pay for the LLC and figure it out. But until you get to that point, until you've gotten punched in the mouth a couple times, you're, you're not gonna know what to do.

Mike: totally. I wouldn't even think about an LLC until your company is doing like $80,000 or more.

Right, 

TJ: Yeah, 

Mike: just, just file a DBA and use your own social security number and boom, you're in business, right? As a sole proprietor. And then once that's how you prove your concept. Once you prove your concept, then you can go in and you can get your LLC and file an S corp and make it a corporation and do all of this other stuff that gives you tax benefits.

But you don't need that stuff to start, just start, right? You can buy something right now and you could post it on Facebook marketplace and you're in business, right? If someone buys it from you, you literally are a seller now, right? You've started a business and you've started a brand. So, um, yeah. You can't let this, this stuff kind of paralyzes you and, and you need to just move forward.

And it's another one, kind of like what Hermo says, but Tyson, right? Everyone's got a plan. Until you get punched in the face, your plan is not gonna work, right? You are gonna think about it, you're gonna do it, you're gonna have all these ideas, and you're gonna step out there and like day one, something's gonna happen and you're gonna have to pivot.

So what? Pivot? Keep moving, right? Take the next step.

TJ: And for me, that's what makes entrepreneurship so exciting. It's, it's a different kind of rush from the fire department, but I think it still hits some of those same nerve endings that you are put in a position where you have to make a decision with consequences. And it's, it takes everything that you know, and everything that you've experienced to make the correct decision with the information at the time.

Right. And it's, it's almost like it's exciting because you're looking at the people out on the stands, the ones who are still trying to figure out the LLC or all these things, and you're like, you know what? That doesn't matter because I'm here. I'm in the thick of it. I'm making these decisions, and we are just taking one forced step at a time, getting punched in the face every single time, and doing it with a smile on our faces and continuing forward.

Mike: Absolutely. And you also gotta remember, like there's different levels to the game, right? So like at that level one. There's a ton of people and they're all thinking the same kind of thing, right? And as you go and you find some success and you move up, well, like, you know, now your business is doing a hundred thousand dollars a year, you're in a new tier, right?

Of people. All those people who are doing less than that, they're below, right? And you're at that a hundred thousand dollars a year, now you're doing $250,000 a year and you're doing, you know, it, it, each one of those just kind of keeps leveling up with new problems, new issues, new whatever. But the group of people who you're competing against is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

And you'll never make it to those higher levels if you get stuck, paralyzed at that bottom level. So again,

TJ: And, and there are two things that I want to talk about after what you just said. One, you're not pulling these numbers out of your ass. These are numbers that you have seen, and this is that reminder for all of those firefighters out there who are like, oh, I can't do this. It's never gonna be me. Like I, I don't have what it takes.

There's only one way to prove whether or not you have what it takes and it's to do it. And you are sitting here as living proof of a firefighter who was able to take an idea and make it into a multiple six figure years and growing with every single time. So for the listeners out there who are thinking, no, no, that's not me.

Like that's a pipe dream. These guys are just so full of it. You are here to prove that. 

And the other. 

Mike: Take another step there. You're a firefighter, right? You're a paramedic. Think about the pool of people in your class that in paramedic school that didn't make it, that weren't able to make the cut, right? Think about the people who applied for the fire department and didn't get it and didn't make the cut.

You already are like cut from a different cloth. You already have what it takes to separate yourself. You just have to change your mindset. 'cause now you're not applying it to getting a fire job. You're applying that same like grit to building your business. So you already have the makeup, you already have the foundation if you're on this path, right?

Like it's just a, it is just a mindset shift. That's it. You have what it takes. Just stopping a wimp.

TJ: Do you think that maybe we get comfortable when we're in the fire department because we surpass that hurdle of getting hired? Right? You get 

hired and you can just literally coast for 20 or 30 years if you choose to.

Mike: For sure, for

TJ: It's a, it's a comfort thing. 

Mike: one. Don't be that turd though. Right. Your community deserves somebody who is not sitting back and doing nothing. Um, but, uh, but yes, it does happen. There is, you know, that sense of I made it. I don't wanna promote now I'm just gonna be a firefighter. Right? Or maybe it's been a while you made it to engineer and you're like, I don't wanna promote the captain.

I'm just gonna drive the rig. Right? Like, there, there is some like stagnation that, that happens during that period of time. Um, but overall, remember the drive that you had to get onto the job. If you need to like harness that, it's in you, it's in

TJ: I mean, I'm, I'm gonna fight you on that one because I do believe that there's something to be said for that senior man who never promoted, who is that unofficial mentor and leader and, you know, engine driver myself, who never 

Mike: but there's two, there's two senior men, right? There's the senior man. By the fact that they sat on their ass and have been there a long time, and there's the senior man who maybe only has five years on, but is like a student of the craft and understands the job, and takes the classes and does what they need to do and works out to maintain like excellent fitness, right?

They, they are the definition of like a firefighter. That's your senior man, right? I don't think senior man is something that you get just simply because you're, you've been there the longest, um, you have to earn that role. And now sometimes that is the guy who's been there the longest, right? The senior man is the person who's done it and knows it and has been through all of it, and is a role model and example by all means.

But, um, it doesn't have to be, and it's not just years of service. I feel like, um, and it's one of the things that happened with me. Like I, I stopped being a student of the craft of firefighting. I started to, my passion was shifting. It was shifting to business. I started focusing my time and energy to go to trade shows, to go to learn different things about the eyewear space.

And I was no longer looking to try and get into the Truck Academy, right? I was looking into flights to Vegas for Vision Expo, right? Like I, it was like my path was changing. Um, and it was the right thing for me to do to leave the fire service. 'cause I could have stayed there, run my business, been a firefighter, and been that guy who just sat there, didn't promote, didn't take any more classes and took up space.

And honestly, probably would've become a liability for the department. So, um, it was the right move for me. If you find yourself in that same position, that's also maybe a sign for you that, um, you're growing out of the profession, um, which there's nothing wrong with, right? You've, you've done the job, you've done good for the community.

If your life is changing directions and you find yourself, um, passionate and interested about something else, then you know it's gonna fulfill you to to move after it.

TJ: I appreciated being vulnerable enough to admit that you felt like you became a liability. We've seen the people who are very obviously a liability to the department and to their crews who just refused to admit that. What, and going a bit, a bit off the, the structure that we had here, did that come about as like hindsight realization after you left, or was there a point?

Okay, so it wasn't like you weren't sitting there on the recliner one day and you went, wow, I'm a shit bag. It happened after the fact.

Mike: After the fact, looking back. Um, you know, and I, I got still great friends guys who are in my Probie class, right? That have like, continued to learn, continue to promote. Every time you reach out to 'em and be like, Hey, like you want to hang out? Like, ah, I'm going to this class, right? I'm doing, and it's like, cool.

Right now these guys are, you know, USAR certified and they're, you know, gone to truck academies and understand like all the latest and greatest techniques. Like they're kick ass firemen, right? They're, you know, they're the guy that you want there on, on a bad day, whether it's your bad day as a crew member or you know, the citizen's bad day, right?

The, the person with the training and with the expertise is the one that's gonna show up. So you should never, and, and you'll hear it everywhere, right? In the fire service. This the day you feel like you've learned everything is the day that you should retire. 'cause it's constantly changing. Building materials are changing.

Um, right. Batteries and cars. There's all this different technology that's coming out there now. Tesla batteries on the sides of houses. There's just so many new risks that if you're not staying up on it, um, you could find yourself in a deadly situation pretty quickly.

TJ: Yeah, and selfishly putting your own crews at risk because who's gonna come get you them.

Mike: Right?

TJ: So you realize that after the fact, but you've been building the business and you know, you still have those thoughts about the fire department, but there's still been wins in the, in the business side of things with frontline optics. I hesitate to ask you about what the proudest moment is, because I think that's pigeonholing you, but can you give me a progression of what you felt were some of the biggest accomplishments that you've had up until this point?

Mike: Yeah. Um, I mean, my biggest accomplishment was the day that my take home salary from the company exceeded what I made as a firefighter. That was my validation that, um, I had made the right decision, uh, with it additionally, right? I'm, I'm home all the time, so like, not only is my income higher, but my free time is higher as well.

Um, I have complete control over my own schedule. So like, you know, having that and knowing that I have like true freedom in my life, um, to do what I want to do and financial freedom in my life, to know that I can do the same things I did when I was on the job, um, was a really big moment for me. Um, but there's a lot, right?

Like, there's so many milestones and it's, it's almost sad 'cause you hit the milestone and then quickly forget about it. But like my first six figures, like, I still remember when I first started doing sales and I'd get like two or three sales in a day and I would be like, man, if I could just do, do this every day, right?

I'd be able to make this much money and oh, if I could just sell seven pairs of sunglasses every single day, you know, and it's like. Now it's like, if, if I were to sell seven sunglasses in a day, I would be like, what happened? Right? Like, it's how quickly it can change. But um, but yeah, like each one of those, it's like, I guess what you could say is looking back, you exceed a lot of them, but they're like these, it's like a goalpost that'll never, you can never reach it.

'cause as soon as you get close, you're gonna push the goalpost further. It's a new goal, right? You're like, close to a hundred K and then it's like, okay, like 250 K and then you get close to that, it's like 500. You get close to that. It's, I want a million. Um, it, it just never ends. But when you look back at it, you kind of see all the things that you've accomplished.

But obviously the big one that sticks out was being able to completely change my side hustle to main hustle with no financial lifestyle change for the, for the family.

TJ: Dude. Yeah. That is beyond phenomenal. That is, that's, that's the the one thing that you need to look back in life and be like, holy shit, I made it like, e even if an asteroid hits us tomorrow and vaporizes the world, you can still go into the ether being like made it, 

like I made it happen on my own terms.

But you were talking about the goalpost and it's. It's an often quoted thing that I hear from various entrepreneurs. They, they always go back to that Haitian proverb that I pulled up. I can't even pronounce it so I'm not even gonna try to. But the translation roughly goes to beyond mountains. There are more mountains.

And it's one of those things that you get to that, that summit, what you thought was the hardest summit ever. And you look beyond and you're like, haha, there's a higher mountain to climb. And I'm excited to do it. And I think that's what separates the true and good entrepreneurs from the entrepreneurs is that the entrepreneurs will see that mountain and be like, oh fuck.

And the true entrepreneurs are like game on. Still gonna get punched into the mouth, still gonna get kicked a bunch of times, but there's another mountain to climb. And they just don't stop. They just never stop. And that's you. You have to learn to enjoy that and to just love every second. Of getting kicked in the teeth

Mike: A hundred percent.

TJ: Now Charity. 'cause you're big on charity, right? You support the first Responders Children's Foundation. Why?

Mike: Well, I wanted to build a brand that was for all of us, right? Not just firefighters, not just police officers, not just paramedics. There's a lot of foundations out there that are, that are exclusive in that sense. Um, as much as we like to like pick fun at each other, at the end of the day, like if you go to like a barbecue, a neighborhood barbecue, like the cops, firefighters and paramedics are gonna be standing together in a corner, right?

Like, we are different than everybody else. Um, and we'll talk a lot of shit to each other about who's the best in that circle, right? But like, at the end of the day, we've all got each other's backs. So I wanted to make sure we picked a charity that did that. Um, the sunglasses for me, it's always been more than just a business.

Like if I was to just be making money and not doing something positive with it for the world, um, like what am I really doing? You know? Um, everything I feel like should be able to give some, make some kind of impact in the world. And so for me, I wanted to make sure we gave back, um, to those who, who, who perished in this, in this career and leave their families behind.

So the first responders Children's Foundation was built after, after nine 11. Um, out of New York and, you know, it takes care of police, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, you name it. If somebody is either killed in the line of duty or, um, has like a life altering injury, like paralysis or whatever, right. Um, they're gonna provide for those families.

They provide, um, support in those situations. They provide, um, to, or a, um, scholarships for kids to go to college. So they really, I mean, it's an amazing, it's an amazing organization and it encompasses everything that, that we are and what we stand for with like our brotherhood and sisterhood. So they were the obvious choice and the obvious partner to give a percentage of, of our profits should take that back a percentage of our revenue.

So we take it off before profit. So some companies will do, some companies will do like a percentage of profit and that, you know, that's also great, but it's. For a tax. A tax per percentage. Right. It helps with taxes. Um, we make sure that comes out first so

TJ: And I think that because like you mentioned, we not only do we have each other's backs, but it's hard to walk away and it's hard to walk away from the community and the people. You talked about it when we started you, it's, it's the guise, it's the clowns, not the circus, but it's always the clowns. But there's a dark side to those clowns and to that community, and I think it comes from a lack of understanding because people who are still within the fire service will happily try to tear you down and bring you down if you choose to walk away from that.

We've seen it time and time again. Can you talk about any experiences you have had with that?

Mike: I can, um.

TJ: We're not turning this into 

a gripe session though. 

Mike: Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna name names. Um,

TJ: Don't get me canceled. 

Mike: yeah, there's definitely people, um, who are not gonna support you if you want to go against the grain and do something different than everyone else. Um, realistically, you know, you should look at it and say like, if somebody's life path is different than your life path, that's okay.

Right? Not, not everyone is gonna be a firefighter, right? So if somebody wants to, who got it, decides they wanna walk a different path, um, that shouldn't be something that should be held against them, right? If anything, like I said, you're, you keep them there. Well, now, again, liability, right? Um, they're not gonna be passionate, they're not gonna grow, and they're gonna put you at greater risk.

Why not replace them with somebody who is going to be passionate about the career? Um, but yeah, it's, I mean, it's the. The nasty side of the, of the fire service. Um, I'm sure law enforcement deals with the same thing, but you know, your brother who stands behind you and talks you up, the second you walk outta the room, if you're the topic of conversation at the table, will be just as quick to, to put you down other than those handful that you have that are your, like true people.

And, and you all know who, who those people are. You've got, you know, those few people at the department where, you know, like no matter what you guys got each other's backs, um, the rest of 'em, you, you just, you just don't know. And then there's some of 'em that, you know, just based off of their behavior all the time that, um, you know, they're gonna talk some shit.

So, you know, it's, it's unfortunate. Um, but it's also very helpful 'cause it's, you know, they call it dark energy. Um, I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna prove you wrong, right? It feeds you, it's like a little chip on your shoulder. So when you have those bad days, you have those. Issues. You have those days where you're not necessarily feeling like, um, putting forth the effort, um, that little chip jumps out and you're like, you know what? Fuck those guys. Let's go. Right? So, and, and then you, you go after it and you, you keep climbing. Um, I definitely cared a lot more about it until I got to that point where, um, I've now completely replaced my salary. 'cause now it's like, what do I have to prove? Um, but I still want to get so big that those same knuckleheads are gonna like, brag to their friends that they, you know, they knew Mike and that Mike used to work there.

'cause you know, they're superficial people and that's what they'll do.

TJ: And it's, 

we talked about it before, 

Mike: hard truth. If you're listening and you know who you are,

TJ: damnit man, we're not using the podcast to start shit with people. But it's that, it's that scene and it, I mean it, I know it from memes, from Mad Men where you know, the guy looks at the other is like, I hate you so much. And the dude replies, I don't think about you at all. It's that sort of energy that, that there's always gonna be haters and I think it's.

This is for the those who aren't starting or thinking about starting the entrepreneurial business, realizing that the hate is validation enough that tells you that you're on the right path, because for a long time you're not gonna get any validation for a long time, you're gonna be just trying to get off from getting kicked in the teeth.

But the fact that people are hating on you, that tells you that you're on that path, on the right path.

Mike: you're having some success. And it's threatening, you know, for them, because for them it's, there's only one, there's only one way. There's only one path. And to see somebody successfully venturing away from that path, um, you know, it, it's like the uncomfortable truth is coming out on their side. So, you know, again, do you. If you have your passion and your passion is pointing you in a different direction, follow your passion. Um, like you just said, understand that people are gonna hate, people are going to talk negatively about you. The bigger you get, and the more that you do, the louder they'll get, the more haters you'll get.

But again, that's just further validation. And eventually you'll get to this point where everyone wants to say that they, uh, they were always with you and they, you know, they always knew you'd make it and all this stuff. And you're like, thanks, right. You know. But

TJ: Thanks. I guess

Mike: yeah.

TJ: let's put on the business mentor hat on for a second, and the mike standing here in front of me, what advice would he give to that starting Mike, who was feeling stuck or unqualified or dealing with imposter syndrome? Because there are listeners out there who are feeling the exact same way.

What words do you have for them?

Mike: Um. Just do it right. just 

TJ: it. 

Mike: take it, just move forward. Right? Take that step just like don't, don't hold back. Don't get like paralyzed by your own thoughts. Um, if you go to bed at night thinking about something you want to do and you wake up thinking about something you want to do, and you watch a YouTube video on the topic that you want and it like, makes you happy, that's all the validation that you need to try, right?

It will fill your cup if it's what you know, if it's what you want to do. Um, that, that would be my advice. And then understand that like, imposter syndrome, it doesn't change, right? I still have it, right? Uh, you just go into bigger rooms and you're the small person in the bigger room and you have imposter syndrome from being there.

Um, you know, I was in a, a room just last month with, uh, it was like a mastermind where the, the minimum. Revenue tier to get in the room was a million bucks. Right? And I, I finally broke into this room, super excited. I get in there and these guys are doing like 20, 40, $50 million a year. Um, I realized right away when I walked in, I had a little bag with all my sunglasses in it.

'cause I wanted to, you know, show people my product. No one in that room had their products with them. There was no emotional connection. They were, they were businessmen, right? They were running operations and they wanted to talk about operational efficiencies and, um, import challenges and warehousing and legit all this stuff that was like, had nothing to do with the product.

And I was like, wow. Right. Mindset shift here, put my little thing off to the side. It was in a bag so nobody saw it, you know, I'm sure they knew, but it was like, woo, right? I'm in a different room, so it's gonna keep happening, right? Um, you know, and I'm sure if you get to that 20 million, $50 million and you go into a hundred million dollars or billion dollar, it's gonna be completely different again.

So imposter syndrome, it, it just is what it is. You can't let that stuff paralyze you. Um, just, uh, if it's uncomfortable, it means you're in uncharted territory and that's, that's where you want to live as a builder, I.

TJ: And I think that speaks back to being a probie, because most of us are so quick to dismiss probie year or proby two years, how, however long it took and just be like, thank fuck, I'm done with it. I don't have to worry about doing all those things anymore. But if you actually dissected, being the small fish in the big pond is amazing because you get to learn so much and everybody just wants to teach you.

And that's another advantage that we have, is that we have been in those rooms where it doesn't matter what we think we know as probies, we just have to shut up and learn. And everybody is so happy to teach you that. When you get to those rooms where there's people making millions and millions a year, you can just put on that proby energy and be like, all right, I'm gonna learn from every single one of you.

But with the mindset and with the scrappiness that I already have. And it's funny you mentioned the the Mastermind, because I was in a similar one. Same shell shock. I was just like, I was quiet the entire time. There were people throwing numbers that frankly made my head spin and they were throwing numbers, you know, they're like, oh yeah, I'd feel comfortable when I have 2 million in cash in the account.

That's gonna make me feel like I don't have anything to worry about. I'm over here like, okay, I need to hang out with you because these are numbers that I cannot even fathom.

Mike: Yeah. Like when people lose a hundred thousand dollars, they're like, yeah, I mean, we lost a hundred thousand, but like, it wasn't that big a deal. You're like, what? What do you mean that wasn't that big a deal? Hundred thousand dollars, right?

TJ: Like I had a heart attack for you man.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

To them, it's like me losing a thousand dollars, right?

Or it's like somebody who's got a hundred thousand dollars that lose a hundred dollars. Right? It's all, it's all just perspective

TJ: that's that perspective and perspective is such a, such a funny word because we gain a lot of it. As we grow through life and as we learn some more, and sometimes we'd like to tie it into legacy, because if you look back and the perspective you've gained, you try to to assign that meaning of legacy.

Is there a specific legacy that you hope to leave with frontline optics?

Mike: Yeah. Um, I mean, I wanna make a lasting impact within the first responder community, and I want to, um, have name recognition, you know, household name recognition amongst our community. I want people to be proud of the glasses and know right away like. My goal would be every fire engine in the United States, you go by and everybody in them is wearing frontline glasses.

Every law enforcement officer is wearing frontline glasses. Why? Because they're durable, they're high quality, and they represent us. Um, does it take a long time to build something like that? Sure. Right. A lot of times when you create something for a particular market, especially firefighters and police officers, right?

We have that, that concept of like Ricky Rescue, right? Like, oh, I don't wanna wear something that's like, like this. Well, eventually you blow past that and you just become like the five 11. Everyone wears five 11, right? Um, I'm sure there was a time when that brand first started where they were trying to break in and people were like, uh, and it was only kind of the, the early adopters that wanted everything First responder, right?

And eventually it became mainstream. It became the norm within our industry. Um, that's kind of my mindset and my vision and where I would like this thing to go.

TJ: One pair of sunglasses in every fire engine in the country. At least I 

like it. Well, multiple pairs. Hopefully. Hopefully at least a driver's wearing them. I don't know how guys do it. I'm gonna hit you outta left field with a question I didn't put in the stuff that we talked about.

Mike: Okay.

TJ: What is the one failure that you cherish the most?

Mike: Um, that's a good question. Um, my first fire academy, I failed, uh, that was with San Diego City. Um, I kind of got lucky. I was one of those people who, um, got in early, having not put a lot of time in. Um, I was not physically ready yet. I was not kind of emotionally ready yet. Um, and I ended up getting injured in that academy or I hurt my back.

Um, still dealing with it to this, to this day. But from that, I learned that especially like I'm a small guy. I'm five foot five. Like, if I wanted to be five foot five and be a firefighter, well, I needed to be a beast, right? Um, I couldn't just do what the six foot guy is doing, going for a jog and doing some pushups and be able to do the job.

Like I needed to do that much more. Um, I learned that from that failure, I strengthened myself. I worked on myself. Um, and the next time I was given the opportunity, you know, I didn't, I didn't let it go by. Um, it still sticks with me, right? Like I still remember that it was like one of the most defeating moments of my life.

But it was also one of the moments in my life that kind of shaped me and built that resilience, um, to learn, right? Learn from your failures. Pivot on what you're doing that isn't working. Focus on what is working, uh, and attack it again. And win.

TJ: Fucking win. Mike Attenberg, frontline optics, my brother. Thank you so much for coming on. Where can people find you?

Mike: Yeah. Um, you can check us out online, frontline optics.com. We're very, um, active on Instagram and Facebook. Just look up frontline optics and um, love to get you in a pair of our sunglasses.

TJ: Their quality, you still doing the, the replacement

Mike: It's a $12 service fee, so you pay a $12 service fee, lose them, break 'em, anything happens. We'll ship a brand new pair, no questions asked, and that includes our prescription. So get a prescription pair of sunglasses and you lose 'em on the rig. 12 bucks. We'll send you another one.

TJ: My man. Thank you so much. I appreciate you doing this. 

Mike: Yeah, ma'am. Thanks for having me. This was a blast.