074. You'll Learn Something From Everyone You Work With [Part 2]

Leadership in the fire service isn’t about the badge — it’s about the lives that depend on you. In this episode, Ralph Suppa opens up about the sleepless nights, the toll of responsibility, and the lessons learned from failure. If you’ve ever questioned whether you’re doing enough for your crew, this one hits home.

What You’ll Take Away:

• Why real leadership means putting your people first — even when it costs you sleep or worse
• How to face the crushing weight of responsibility without breaking under it
• The mindset shift every officer needs to keep their crew safe
• Why failure in leadership can become your greatest teacher

 If you’re a firefighter who’s stepping up to lead — or wants to — and you feel the weight of that responsibility, this one’s for you.

Transcript

TJ: I wanna keep unpacking this because I remember it all stemmed from a post on social media that is pretty innocuous in my mind. Everybody likes to post their wins. That's literally, literally the point of social media, self-serving, circle jerks. Okay, let's get that out there.

Why do you think that you need to modulate yourself? For the appeasement of others when, as we've established the whole point of our social media is that self-serving thing. And I say that without perspective of the people who are coming to you and saying, Hey, Ralph, you shouldn't have posted that. They are basically saying, sir, I need you to mold your approach to life based on my observations and my opinions and my thoughts, which to me is absolutely ridiculous.

Like when people say, well, things should be this way, I'm like, oh, thank you, sir. I'm glad that you are putting your expectations on a universe that frankly does not give a shit about us. So,

Ralph: all right, I'll try to, I'll, I'll try to answer that and, and again, this is where we talked about being raw and real, and I hope you know that I will be. 

TJ: Without getting fired.

Ralph: I, you are right in what you're saying. This to me was also a growth opportunity to take a step back and, you know, man, the more humility that is delivered to me in life lessons, the more I just, um, Ted lasso, be curious, not judgmental, also Walt Whitman for those, but I really have tried to take a step back, not always, and I definitely still struggle with this and say, okay, be curious about this.

Why is somebody approaching this way? And, um, just recently, I, I don't think I should have to tailor it to that. Um. My wins. But there is an aspect that yeah, you're going to always hurt people. And it's, if my overall goal is not to hurt people and I don't want people to feel that way, like I, I don't wanna feel it.

It goes back to what I said earlier. I wanna treat people the way I wanna be treated. And something you said to me, um, way back in the day actually, and I think we were discussing this, is nobody throws shade. Nobody throws shade on you. Who's doing better than you? And that has also driven me where I take a look at some people who have been angry with me or whatnot.

And it's not everybody. There's plenty of people who have done better than me, but I don't want to do that to anyone else. And the caliber of people I went up against in this captains process was, was top notch. And I remember looking at the list of people. Which was close to I think 40, 45 people, and I was like, oh my gosh, if I finish in the top 10, it'll be a miracle.

And I, I was, so, the journey and everything else that went through, I was just so excited that I, I, you know, it was, it was an, it was, again, in retrospect, it was an impulsive post, which isn't a bad thing. But in retrospect, I would've done it slightly different. And that's why I posted like the apology post, which then pissed off the people who were excited for me.

TJ: Oh, I was fear, I about threw my phone out the window. I saw that. I'm like this motherfucker. 

Ralph: Oh man. That was almost the more comical part is people being upset about my reposting or my, you know, 

TJ: I'm like, you apologize for nothing, sir. You take your wins. 

Ralph: I, and, and that's where it's, it's just, uh, like I said, for, for those who, do you 

TJ: apologize when you're first, when you beat the first two engine to a fire?

Do you, do you, 

Ralph: uh, I follow my SOPs according to the proper. Oh. Unless I've asked. Yeah. Yes sir. Captain, sir. Yeah. Yeah. Um, no, it was like I said, it.

I, I don't have the right answer. And I hope in time that somebody, when you were put in the position, I was, if you learn something from this talk, then I hope it helps you in the future. And you, 'cause I don't wanna make enemies. Um, you know, I think you're going to, 

TJ: by virtue of being alive and by virtue of doing what you do well, unless I don't want to make 

Ralph: enemies by, I don't wanna make enemies, obviously there's always there, there's going to be haters.

Um, Brene Brown, who, um, is an amazing author, I, I recommend reading her books. She's, she says, don't read the comments. I've gotten better at not reading comments. And it's both good and bad because it's really easy to be like, oh yeah, look at me, I'm great. Pat yourself on the back. But the flip side is like, there's gonna be plenty of haters out there.

And I've just gotten to the point where I sh I don't read the comments. I'll thank people because I'm grateful and I appreciate if you took the time to, you know, comment on a post I've made congratulating me. It, I should take the time to acknowledge that. So, um, yeah, it, I don't have the right answer. I'm still learning.

I hope somebody learns. Don't take a deep breath. Talk to your spouse or your best friend or somebody who's gonna give you the god's honest truth, whether it's your parents and say, Hey, I'm gonna post this. And you should, you have to do that every time. No, there's certain things that just know you might make people angry and upset and I don't have the right answer.

Sorry. 

TJ: I think you're gonna make them upset. I think anytime that you do anything with conviction, anything to improve. Your life as you perceive it, somebody will perceive it in a totally different way. And in our modern day where you can just fire off a tweet or a post or a comment with zero thought and zero effort, it's easy for that quote unquote hatred.

I just like to look at it as noise. It's just, it's just like, just noise in the background. Uh, but yeah, dude, I was, I, I saw that apology post and I was furious. Like, I'm gonna find, I'm gonna find his new home address. I'm gonna go beat him. We, um, so we met at Go Rock doing hard things, and I think the next time that we crossed paths was in a trench in Elkridge.

Uh, which was a miserable day. My God, that was a long, hot day. Because we're both, we're both in the, um, that special operations world, which in and of itself is a different facet of the fire service. And you've spent most of your life doing that stuff. Most of your fire service life, doing that. How has that shaped your thoughts and your approach to leadership?

And I say that because rank and file, if you will, ordinary operations, quote unquote, if we wanna call them that it's relatively simple to be like, Hey, based on these SOPs, we shall do this. Whereas most of the personalities in special operations are gonna look at it and be like, okay, but why? Because we are taught to question everything.

That's how we can find, you know. Divergent solutions that help us achieve that goal. So how, how do you tailor a leadership style to a set of folks who will innately always question everything? 

Ralph: So my leadership style, which some definitely question it and disagree with, it was very much a democracy that I got 51% of the voting rights for.

And I say that where one of the guys on my old crew, um, Paul Wakowski, he would look at a Swift water event and he's a river guide and he's been doing that for years. He sees a million things that I don't see. So if we had swift water, I'd be like, Pauly, what do we got? And people'd be like, what do you mean near the officer?

Hold on. This is his area of expertise. I'm gonna lean on him. So I very much now at the end of the day, it's my, my call, but I'm gonna use an expert that I have or I'm gonna use a guy that I have on my team. And that's pretty much how I grew up in the special operations world. Um, as I said, you know, captain Chris Kane would, would say, I got this guy who does rope.

I got this guy who does claps. I got this 'cause I came on the team, I was like, oh I wanna be a rescue guy, rock breaker. And he's like, I need a hazmat guy. And I was like, I just told you I coward on hazmat call. Hazmat scares me. And he is like, you're doing hazmat. I was like, I don't think you hear me as I request this 'cause you're my officer and I'm junior.

And he is like, hazmat, learn it. Go. And we approached it from like this facet where we all brought our specialty and we all kind of, again, we are jack of all trades. And then we would master one or two. So we were just like such a great team. That's what I grew up in. We were very successful based off of those dynamics.

So I tried to continue that and carry the flag of what he did. And to tell you the type of leader he was. And this is where like I'll get back into the, my type of leadership. Um, when I first got promoted to lieutenant, I got called into, uh, division Chief and Assistant Chief's office and they're like, Hey, how did the Office of Development program go ba, ba b?

Is there anybody you'd recommend? And I was like, um, well, I mean, I would recommend Captain Kane because uh, there's about eight or 10 of us that would probably commit a murder for him without asking. And they were like, excuse me. I was like, ah, I'm just being honest. Like he's that kind of leader. You're just gonna fall him blindly and know that it's probably gonna work out.

It's gonna work out. And I remember like walking outta that office, calling him on the phone and being. Hey, you might get a call or something and an hour later he's like, what the f did you do? And now he's in charge of our Office of Development program. Um, but for me, I just, I saw how successful we were as a team and, um, something that, you know, one of the guys that was on our crew said to me was, it's just amazing his type of leadership, because he brought people from all, all of our crew was so different and the way he led us, I think the most people out of any, uh, out of anybody in our department have been promoted underneath of him.

He develops leaders and he is one of those people that as I've, as I've gone and done things, he has always cheered for me. Like he is that just incredible mentor. And, uh, when I screwed up recently at work, and we'll get into this one, um, and got disciplined, I actually, you know, uh. I've been lucky enough to be invited on, you know, another podcast, and I'm, and people are like, oh, your boy.

Uh, and, uh, you know, that brings shade onto him and, and some stuff. And I, I felt the weight of that because I don't, he is, I want to do him proud because of everything he's done for me. And I, I told him like, my life's completely different in a much better way because of him. And I wanted, if I have that impact or even a partial impact that he's had on me and a lot of others, then I'm doing something right.

So, uh, my leadership is very much, some, we call it laissez fair. I don't, I make the decision at the end of the day, but I'm gonna use those guys as best I can. And now being in ordinary ops or outside of special operations, it's also learning that you have a lot of guys that have specialties. And it's just, if you don't ask questions, if you're not curious and you just judge it from the outside of, you're a driver, you're a paramedic, you're a firefighter.

You're gonna miss a lot of talents that your crews have. And, um, I love getting to know, and I, I'm not saying people don't do this, but one of the guys on my crew, uh, you know, he runs a tree service company, so he's got a lot of knowledge for cranes and all these other things climbing.

He, you know, another guy, he's a 55-year-old rookie and he's got a lot of life experience. It's really easy for us to just sit back and judge. And again, not everybody as you can't say. Everybody can't say nobody, but it's, that's how I lead, is I want to get to know my crews. I want to get to know my people, um, and then use their strengths where their strengths are.

One of my weaknesses, I'm a bad driver. That's why I was never a driver. I took pumps so I knew how to get water out of a fire engine if everything went wrong. But I have no business driving a fire engine. And I recognize that I barely have a, I barely do a good job driving my personal car. They're smashing curbs, oopsies.

I'm proud to say that I'm about to hit my 20 year safe driving pin. As long as I'll crash anything in the next six months. You 

TJ: literally just jinx yourself. 

Ralph: There's no such thing as jinx. Um, so when it comes to that, yeah, there's certain times where if I give an order, I expect to be followed. But I tell guys, and um, this goes back to the book, uh, the Culture Code and there was a Seal Team six guy named Dave Cooper and he was like, Hey man, if I'm about to do something stupid or I'm about to walk past the window, it's gonna get my head blown off.

You better speak up. And I tell my guys, if I'm gonna do something stupid, you better stop me. Whether it's gonna get one of us hurt, injured, or killed, or like, if you see something, you better speak up. And I expect that not just from a safety realm, but like. I can't see everything. I try to be a big picture guy, head on a swivel, but I'm gonna miss stuff.

And if you're not gonna tell me that I'm about to do something stupid and just go along with it, that's a problem. And that's, that's where I like, again, another leadership thing where, hey, we're all a team. I, the buck stops with me. I will ne I, I, you know, I have never thrown somebody in front of the bus.

I, I mean, I don't think anybody could say that. I have. Um, and I tell my crews like, something happens that's on me. My job is to protect you all to give you the best resources, best education. I can share every bit, but I'm gonna learn from you too. So if you see me doing something stupid, you better stop me.

TJ: I always chuckle at those officers who. I believe that by virtue of getting that colored helmet or that white shield or whatever, however your jurisdiction does it, that they're immediately omnipotent and all knowing because for a while you try to fight it and then eventually you're like, nah, I'm just gonna let the world 

Ralph: acceptance teach them.

TJ: And I'll never, there I was, I was super young, like I was super new in the department and we were dealing with a very reluctant and damn near combative patient. And, uh, the officer at the time's like, I'm lieutenant so-and-so and you need to go to the hospital. And this dude goes, I don't give off. Fuck who you are.

And I'm like, Ooh. Like, what are you gonna do next, buddy? Because the civilian just said that you have no authority here. It's like that Lord of the Rings memes, like, you have no power here. That always, that always makes me Chuck. I'm like, listen. Yeah, it's always, you only have as much power as the people give you.

And um, it's, uh, I thought special operations should have always been run that way, which is you find your strengths and your weaknesses and your people and you deploy them accordingly versus saying, I know it all. I am going to say how things go. And it's like, well, the swift water guy tells you that you're gonna drown, but go ahead do your thing because you think you know it all.

Well, it's 

Ralph: no. So, um, I think that goes back again to fear and vulnerability. Like you look at. A lot of leadership stuff and it's, you have to be vulnerable and being okay to say, I don't know. And uh, just this morning I was talking with one of my mentors and he's like, you might be able to solve this problem, but if you're working with a team, you job is not to solve that problem.

It's to get them to be able to solve it themselves. And I still struggle with that. Like as an officer, I want to put my hands to show the guys I can do this. And I think that's important, but on the flip side, that's not my role anymore. 

TJ: You gotta 

Ralph: empower and Yes, and you know, that's where I would say early on in my career, and even, and this is, this goes back to early on in my time with special operations.

I took a bunch of classes and I wanted to feel the respect of the senior guys. And I was like, I know this, you don't know. And again, captain Ka pulled me in the office. He was like, listen man, your little brother, only thing is time. And showing these guys, you can take as many classes as you want until they see you do it.

You're, and that's just your role right now. And there'll be a time where you're a big brother and it did come. And that I'm having these conversations with, you know, my firefighters, Hey, I get it. You wanna prove that you belong on this team and everything else. 'cause again, especially young men, young women in this job, especially special operations, it doesn't even matter if special operations or or not, you wanna feel you belong.

You bring something to the team, you contribute, you're enough. And uh, you know, I coached baseball and yesterday we had a game. I had this kid, a phenomenal athlete. He was pitching and he was rear back given a, and I had to go out there and I was like. You are enough. You've already earned being here. I need you to understand it's not your job to strike out everybody.

You do not need a power. You are enough and you need to just let, just pitch to not contact and let your team be with you. And, and, you know, 18-year-old kid, is he gonna hear that? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe in five years, probably, maybe, probably not. I didn't hear it. I didn't hear it up until I still have trouble hearing it.

And that's where I right. Appreciate our talks. Um, but that's where, you know, for me, leadership and everything and the vulnerability to be like, I don't know. I don't have all the answers. Let's figure it out together. Or if somebody has the answer, Hey, put your hand up. And, um, yeah. So I learned that lesson the hard way and I'm grateful that I had mentors and people to guide me kind of down that road.

TJ: There's so many different ways that we can take this. So I'm trying to take the most obscene one just to keep you on your toes. Have you ever ended up being that that officer that you hated working for? Like, do you ever look in the mirror and you go, oh no, I am acting the way that I absolutely hated

Ralph: yes to, to give you the short answer and I will go down. This is why it is so crucial to have people in your lives, and especially if you're an officer, a senior person who can tell you when that is happening. Um, there were times when I would have my driver, um, and he's truly my best friend. It's funny 'cause my wife asked me on a date night recently, who's your best friend?

And I was like, you are? She's like, oh, I definitely thought you were gonna say Vinny. And I was like, I mean, Vinny can't give me stuff you give me. He hasn't given me kids. 

TJ: Not with that attitude. 

Ralph: Yeah. Right. And, um, 2025 sir. So my best friend and, uh, guy I've worked with for like 15 plus years, Vince Nicholas, he was my driver when I was, uh, assigned to special operations as lieutenant.

And he would, there was times where he'd pull me in the office and be like, you are too erratic right now. It's affecting the crew. Um, or yeah. And you wanna talk about tough conversations. You don't want to hear, or, and this is where we've talked about before, um, I take medicine for some mental health anxiety.

Hey, uh, you might wanna tone back your medicine a little bit because you're too loopy and you're, you're kind of spacey and you know, these are things that. You need somebody who's really good, who knows you and can share these things. So yeah, there's times where I definitely know I've been that officer that I don't wanna be, and I've given a few people full permission to punch me in the face if I act like that.

Um, so luckily I haven't been punched in the face yet. They've just talked to me thus far. But I definitely, I always feel like there's an imposter syndrome, um, which I think again, helps keep with humility. But am I actually who I am saying I'm being? And, um, I think this will, uh, I think this is a transition to where you want to go with it.

Recently with my promotion, um, I had made a big mistake on a call. Um, luckily no one was hurt or injured, no civilians. But I made a bad call and this is where I would tell people, learn from my mistakes 100%. So we had an NBC. Um. The car had significant intrusion, but the patient had already gotten out. And I'm here to tell you, once that patient gets out, we no longer have authority or jurisdiction over that car.

Do not do anything else to that car. One of my guys asked about training and I was like, I think it's a great idea. Let's cut this car up. And we took the area that was damaged. It does not matter matter whether or not I thought it was totaled, it was not my decision to make. I made a very bad decision by doing that.

Do not ever do that. Please learn from my mistake. Um, but it caused me to get a suspension and um, put my promotion in jeopardy and it put a lot of, du you wanna talk about not being the officer you wanna be. That put a lot of stress on my crew and now they're being questioned. On their abilities. And you know, that's, that, that hurt.

And it was like, again, a much bigger picture from this very poor decision made. And if I would've gone back and gone through now a decision making process, I'm using it, it was, it was very boneheaded. And I'm, I can't go back. I can only learn and help others not make that call. Um, but after my promotion, I've still been taking heat about it and some other stuff.

And I was in with a senior chief that when he was talking to me, was like, your crew was ready to have you gone. They're happy to have a change. And that's where I was like, oh man, maybe I am ignorant to the fact that I'm not a good officer and leader that I think I am. And, uh, I was lucky enough that within 48 hours, two of the guys on my crew called me.

He was sharing some family health stuff and he was like, I shared it with the crew. You weren't there. And I felt like someone was missing. And he shared this with me. And then, you know, another 24 hours goes by and another one of my guys from my crew, um, Pauly called me and he was like, Hey, just checking in on you.

See how you're doing. So I was lucky to kind of get that instant realization that that wasn't the case. Um, and then I had another, again, mentor to me who had worked with two guys that I had been with prior. And he's like, dude, it's been seven years since you supervise these guys. They still talk about you don't, don't, don't read into that.

Keep yourself honest. If something's going wrong, we'll tell you. And, um. So that's where, yeah, I, I try not to be that officer. I don't want to be. Um, but I think it, it happens and then it's just learn and don't do it again.

TJ: We've talked a lot about the highs and the lows, especially being in a position of leadership. What's a toll that takes on you when it comes to that magical word that we use in the fire service?

Ralph: When it comes to like the leadership highs and lows, one of the things that I've struggled with is wanting to be liked. And while that falls into a part of it, it's also being able to have those tough conversations with people while still balancing that and prioritizing, Hey, we need to have this tough conversation.

And that has definitely been a, uh, a mental toll that it has taken and it gets better with time, I would say. And it's not that I don't care what people think about me, 'cause I do. And for those who, if you don't care what people think about you, I think there's also a. Part of a health there that you should still care, in essence about some people, but if you're just like going to do whatever you want and not caring about other people's opinions at all, I don't think that's a healthy way to roll either.

Uh, there's definitely a balance to it. So, um, you know, I definitely carry home stuff and for me, like I struggled with one of my guys, uh, early on when I was back in special operations. They weren't up to where I thought they should be. And I tried to motivate them, um, with tough love, you know, kid gloves and everything else.

And I, I couldn't reach 'em and to the point where they were ready to throw a transfer in and that, that definitely hurt me. And you wanna talk, you wanna talk about not being the leader? Or boss that I didn't wanna be. I was like, all right, fine. If you just, just let him go. And uh, luckily I had some people to be like, Hey, this is what leadership is.

And at the end of the day, I was actually not the person who got through to this guy. Um, it was one of one of my other firefighters. And at the end of the day, that's, uh, this young man, his name's Nick, he is one of our best, so people and operators now. And thankfully it's because somebody else got through to him.

And it wasn't that it was getting through to him, it was just there was a breakdown in, in my way of communicating. And, um, you know, so that, that's what its toll too, where I had to again, realize that I, this is, I, I'm failing here. How do I, how am I able to change this up? So, um, another aspect of the, of the leadership is the weight it carries.

And something that has always bothered me is people who promote and there's like, oh, I'm just promoting for the money or promoting for this. And I'm like, do you realize you now hold people's, like, we hold people's lives in our hands, but like your responsibility is to these people and their families.

And I remember right before I was promoting, um, the officer I was working for said to me, oh yeah, first like eight months I didn't sleep. 'cause I was just nervous about keeping people. And I was like, all right, whatever man. Uh, it's so true. And now me getting reassigned with new people because you don't know your people fully yet.

It's same thing where I'm like just laying in bed like, okay. This scenario, right? How would I handle this right? How do I keep my guys safe? How do we make sure we're doing our best to save public? 'cause I tell people my we're going to, I'm gonna put you, we're gonna go in harm's way to save lives. I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure I'm prepared and you're prepared for that moment.

But as we know, you can do everything right in this job and still end up dead. And, um, that is, you have to face that reality. And that is a, that is reality. It's as much as gravity is a constant, and a, you're, it's like a plane. Taking off is optional. Landing is not. You're coming down and, um, you either acknowledge that fact or you will be humbled by it.

So that, that strain and stress that takes on, you know, that's part of the reason why I'm medicine. 'cause I was very snappy with my kids and my wife because of the stress. Um, especially during COVID where I thought it was my responsibility to keep all my guys healthy and safe. So they didn't bring it home to their families.

And it was during that time that my wife sat me down. She's like, you're not okay. You need to go talk to somebody. And, um, I'm grateful. My wife is amazing. I'm super blessed. Um, she is, she's definitely a, a major rock for me. And, um, I'm forever grateful that she can, she has those conversations with me.