079. One Thousand Paper Cuts [Part 2]

The way through is simple, but not easy.

In Part 2 of this firefighter suicide series, Sammy Freyta digs into the mask of dark humor, the silent war signs we miss, and how tiny 1% choices bring us back from “dead inside." It's real talk about triaging life, changing what you can, and asking for help without shame.

What You’ll Learn

• Read the tells. Withdrawal, numbing (booze, overwork), short fuse, sleep going to hell, nonstop jokes to dodge real talk—what to watch for in yourself and your crew.
• Normalize the thoughts. Many firefighters think about suicide; that doesn’t make you broken. What matters is your next step.
• 1% moves that matter. Delay the worst choice. Change one thing today. Stack tiny wins until the fog lifts.
• Resilience → growth. How small reps create clarity, new priorities, stronger bonds—and purpose.
• Triage the drains. TJ’s real example: finding space to heal.
• When to escalate. Peer support, EAP, and first-responder inpatient programs aren’t weakness—they’re a parachute.
• If you didn’t do it but feel dead inside. Sammy’s steps: name it out loud, find why you hesitated, rebuild basics, loop in a person, and write the next chapter.

 If you’re a firefighter in a bad spot who needs a clear, simple plan to keep going, this one’s for you.

📧 Reach out to Sammy

🩺 Visit First Responder Wellness

Transcript

TJ: Okay.

Okay. So it's, we're, we're almost back to that yin and yang, right? There's darkness and

there's light, and for us it's very. Well-defined. We see darkness and we see

light. And it's a matter of making sure that light is turned up as bright as possible to kind of drown out the dark, which is always going to be there.

And you, you, we do joke about it, the, the amount of times that we, we had a frequent flight, not even frequent flight, we rarely took him to the hospital, but my man would fall off the bed all the time. The floor was, the hardwood floor was covered in piss, great guy. But every time that we would leave his apartment, somebody would crack a joke.

It's like, Hey man, if I get to the point, I can't fucking kill myself. One of you guys need to put me outta my misery. And you know,

multiple people would say that sort of stuff. And I,

that's to your point of, we always have that in our mind. Whether we mean it or not, that's different. But I think,

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: think if you take these, these type A personalities and you're like, Hey, uh. You're gonna be a quadriplegic and you're gonna be leaving two inches of piss on the floor every day. They're like, nah,

dog, just kill me

right here, right now. 

Sammy: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

TJ: And, uh, we're talking about the jokes and that disconnect. The it, that was the part where I, where I did feel kind of, yeah, disconnected from the world. Not I wanna say a

fake or a fraud, but I could sit there and go through the motions at the kitchen table and joke with the guys, joke with the shift, make them laugh, have fun. But deep down inside, I was not feeling it. You know what I mean? Like, it

was, I just knew it was my job to show up, drive the fire engine, make the

crew laugh, yada, yada, yada. And then I'm going home and I'm like, I. I can't do this anymore. Like I,

I, I, I can't, is it, and you know, do we look at it like, you can look at Robin Williams now, right? It's like someone

I don't wanna, I mean, I think I'm funny as fuck, but a lot of people are gonna disagree. But you look at somebody like him who was making others laugh and feel good and nobody knew

his inner struggle. All of these celebrities that we've known that have taken their own lives, and some of the people that we know who have taken their own lives, they're like, wow, they made everybody feel amazing,

Sammy: Yes. Yeah.

TJ: but not themselves. Is there a way that we can recognize that in people when I have an idea what I think you might say, but is there a way that I can look at one of my close friends and be like, oh, this is, is a

silent war sign.

Sammy: Sure. I think there's, I mean, there's a bunch of signs and symptoms and I can go over them. I think it's also about our connection, right, that we have to others. I think we don't tap into that a lot, like we're moving through the motions so much. Particularly maybe at work, because, not even just first responder work, but work in general.

Because we're take, we're, we're constantly in those anxious waves in our lives and in society, so we're not really focusing on our connection with others. Um, also technology and all the things that, that gets in the way of right. We're, we're, we're overstimulated. So it's difficult to know differences in people unless we're really connected to them.

Um, so I think, and I know this sounds like a lame thing to say, but I think the first thing we need to do is really work on our relationships with people and like, go back, that's another, like, go back to basics kind of thing, is like, what's going on that we are, you know, we're not paying attention to, um, is relationships.

Um, but yeah, I mean there's lots of common signs. Like there's, they start to withdraw, right? Maybe. So you're noticing that they're. Isolating a little bit, or they're removing themselves from things or, you know, they're not, they're not involved as much as they used to be with crews, with activities, with social gatherings or turning down stuff, right?

Like that's a common thing. Um, they're doing numbing behaviors like we were just talking about, like drinking, right? So they're gambling, they're overworking, they're over exercising. So changes in kind of, um, behaviors. You might notice something that's different. They're irritable, so they have a shorter fuse than normal.

Sleep. Sleep changes. I mean, right, like that you might not know about friends or family, but maybe that's more of an internal one, like your sleep starts to get worse or something, or you're, you're tired all the time. Um, then you're, you know, like you're not, you're noticing they're not, they're not really like finding joy in things.

Um, or a big one is like physical, physical symptoms. We don't talk about this a lot, but like they're having headaches or their back. My back's hurting all the time or body aches because that's a way that trauma shows up in our body. And if we're not taking care of it, it gets worse and worse and worse.

And that's when you have to see like the heart attacks and the things happening with responders is because they're, it's being stored and coming out that way, but that's another sign that they're having an emotional struggle too. But I think humor deflection is something that we all do, but it's a huge sign.

So if that's all the person is doing is just being funny all the time, or not having any real conversations with anybody. That's a, that's a potential red flag, especially paired with all those other things. Um, we always say, what is your family saying? Like, what do your loved ones say right now? Because even though sometimes we mask from them or we hide from them, they're really good tells.

So if your family is worried about you or your friends are being like, you know, I mean, my friends are always like, Sammy, you're working too much. What's going on? Are you okay? Like they can tell, right? And that's a sign for me when other people start to notice because I'm really good at being like, I got it.

I got it, I got it. Everything's good. I can take care of everybody. But when my best friends are like, what the fuck's wrong? Like, you need to slow down. That's when I know I am, I need to listen. So sometimes our closest people are our biggest tells.

TJ: Interesting. I wonder if they must have known, I wonder if my crew would've known. I, I, hi. It, I think I hi. It pretty well. Excuse me. From my parents, from my partner at the time

as well. She never knew. 

Sammy: Mm-hmm. 

TJ: Um, 

Sammy: Because it wasn't safe, right? I mean, to tell, to share.

TJ: yeah, I just, I, uh, a, I would give my parents a heart attack if I told them that, and. B right now. I'm like, shit, now there's three dead ones. Um,

and my partner, I just, I didn't feel, and obviously the fact we're talking about this, a relationship did not survive the, the thousand paper cuts. Um,

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: but I don't think it, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how it would've been received. I don't know if it would've been a, a, um, like a considerate response or otherwise, but that might speak to my choice and partners. But we're not, we're, we're gonna stay away from slander territory. 'cause I'm not trying to get fucking sued. We were talking about basically cranking up the light and trying to

diminish the dark

versus the other way, instead of being like, Hey, don't die.

Don't do it. Don't pull the trigger.

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: It's almost like, oh, focus on the stuff that's worth living for, which me makes me

just kind of puke because

I'm sure I can sit there and be like, there's plenty of things not to wanna live for and look around.

Uh, but I think one of the reasons, going back to what I was saying about my parents, one of the reasons I didn't do it is because I kept replaying the image in my mind of how my mom would react. And I had a bit of an idea because when, when Nick got killed and we ended up all of us in that scene, we ended up at the hospital. I called my parents like four or five in the morning, right? So they're in, they're asleep. They wake up to the phone ringing and as best as I could, I'm like, listen, I'm okay. But it was one of our guys, like, it was, it was a guy at my

shift, like it was a guy at my station. I had my firehouse. And just hearing the pain in my parents' voice, like I can only imagine that my mom was like, it could have been my son. Right? It

could have been him. And those were the things I kept replaying in my head.

I'm like, that's what she's gonna see. Like when like I'm not, I'm gonna make sure she doesn't find me, but like when they find me, when somebody talks to 'em, this is what it's gonna be. And like that pain is always gonna be playing through her mind. And that was that sort of moment that it wasn't like the sliver of hope, but it just kind of pumped the brakes that I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Like now this is feeling selfish. Now this is more than just me. This is going to affect others that I care deeply for.

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: And that sort of started that cycle of, let's just make it one more step.

One more day, one more

week, one more month. And let's just, let's stack those tiny little wins one at a time. Is that the post-traumatic growth that we all like to throw around?

Is it the,

Sammy: Well, I think that's resiliency, right? So you're finding a way to bounce back, not like completely, not like you woke up and you're like, I love myself, everything's awesome today, but that you're saying you're making a, you're one percenting, right? Like that's a really common thing in habit forming. And I hate to say that we need to deal with suicide by habit forming, but sometimes we need to get like, let's be real.

We need to get our brain out of that space because our brain is literally not thinking clearly. Um, so doing things 1% is super helpful. There's like the book Atomic Habits, right? Like he talks about that in there. Like, how can you do something 1% better every day to get you out of that ditch, right? That whole of complete despair and helplessness that you feel like there's nothing that matters.

Well, there's maybe something that 1% matters, right? And then that pulls you up and up and up and up. So if you focus, I know you're saying like the small wins, that's what he was referring to. Because small wins give you a small bit of dopamine, serotonin, and all the things that your brain needs to feel good.

So we, you know, you start there and that's building your resiliency to deal with the pain that you're feeling. But when we're talking about post-traumatic growth, that's a bit more, um, how can I explain it? It's, 

TJ: Is it long term? 

Sammy: it's. It's, more of like a transformation, right? So you're living differently because of what you experience.

So it's not in spite of it, it's, it's, it's a transforming ness of you. So you take what you went through and you turn it into something that brings you depth, meaning, and direction. So you grow out of that grief, that loss, that experience that you felt. Um, I think it starts with resiliency. And the more that you do that 1% get out of there, do your start to do your basic shit again, you start to feel motivated, right?

That's habit forming. That's just science. That's brain science. The more that you do stuff that's good for you, the more that you're gonna wanna do it. And then your habits, you're in positive, healthy habits, and then you take that growth from that pit of despair and you start to say. I'm alive now. Like now I'm starting to feel alive again and not dead inside.

And so once I start to feel alive again, then I'm like, oh wow, I almost killed myself. Holy crap. And then you start thinking about, you know, this is so lame, but the smell, the flowers smell nice around me and stop and smell the roses. And you get that like deeper appreciation for things because you were literally in death, right?

Like you were so dead. You weren't gonna be alive again, and now all of a sudden you've 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%. Now you're motivated to 1%. Now you're feeling a little bit good. Now you're like, holy fuck, I'm alive and I was almost dead and now what am I gonna do? And that's when you start to grow and you start to say, okay, well what are the, you start to kind of expand your relationship.

Like who's the relationship that I have that stick stuck with me through this? Who are my people? Right? So you have a greater sense of, um, strength in relationships, a greater sense of strength in the self. You have different priorities. You're like, I'm not gonna work 8,000 bazillion hours of overtime this year because money matters.

Life matters more, right? Like it's those little things that start to shift and then that existential growth happens. So you start to have new worldviews, you start to gain, um, more like deep meaning around things. And then eventually sometimes you even get to a place where you turn it into purpose. So you become purposeful in your career, job, extracurricular activities that actually help people that are, have been there before.

TJ: Hmm. So that 1% better is the resilience that builds us to that post-traumatic growth. And I think for me, I mean, I'm not going around being, I mean, I guess if I am, if I were stoned or something going around being like, oh, let's smell these flowers. They smell so delicious. Me at the soap aisle in the store, this soap smells delicious.

People are like, sir, stop eating the bars of soap. Um, but I think the, the word that immediately came to mind as you were saying those things is that things just became clear. Like my clarity.

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: It, it was that fog of being lifted in in how I perceived the world, but also in how I acted within the world, meaning

Sammy: Yes.

TJ: taking the time to notice those little things to, and I'm not trying to get all poetic and stuff, but like there were times that you're just walking past and you see something cool.

The other day I was at a taco joint and

went to the bathroom and they had this awesome, super colorful frame picture of a Mexican sugar skull

on the bathroom wall. I'm like, this is cool. I'm gonna take a picture. Lots of

cool colors and everything. Like I,

that is my clarity, right? I didn't kill myself and I'm taking pictures of skulls in a taco

joint bathroom. 

Sammy: so true because you start to notice more, and, and it's not, it doesn't need to be poetic. I think it is. I mean, because that's what I, you know, I like to believe in that, those bigger thoughts, but it's also not, it's also very basic, if you think about it. Your brain has more ability to think about 

TJ: To think about the little things, because I'm not worried about all of the other things that are encroaching upon my literal existence.

Sammy: correct.

TJ: And,

Sammy: Correct.

TJ: go ahead. It seems like you're about to say something.

Sammy: Oh no, I just, I think we don't have to get, we, if people are listening out there and it's like, oh, this is all fluffy. It's not like you, your, your brain is just expanding. You know, that plasticity of your brain, that brain's ability to create new memories, synapses, thoughts, whatever that's called, brain plasticity.

That's happening because you are healthy, right? So you are starting and because you were in a place that wasn't, so you're starting to get your, your brain is starting to be able to experience more things. And let's face it, there are really cool things in the world, right? Like, things are nice, like sugar school pictures are fucking cool.

I, I don't know, like candy is fun. Like, you know what I mean? Like 

TJ: you sound like a child. 

Sammy: not, but it's true. But that's why we talk about like a childlike experience because there was nothing distracting our brains as children. Like we were just experiencing joy when we could.

TJ: I was at the, at the barbershop this morning and um, they have a little bucket with lollipops for kids for when they come in

and there were these two brothers who came in. One got his hair cut, the other one was sitting there with his dad and on the way out they, you know, the barber's like, Hey, if you guys want lollipops, go have Adam. And watching those two just run up and be so excited, rummaging

through some generic bullshit dollar store lollipops that are just nothing but

processed sugar and just. So happy. Like you, you look

around, it's like it's a Saturday morning, it's a nice fall day. And these kids, like, the most exciting thing that has happened is that they got lollipops at the barbershop, and

it is going to be a cool, super amazing memory for them.

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: It, um, I almost wanna say that's a goal and we go back to what the, the growth. What I've, I mean, this journey is not over for me, right? I still have the bullet. I'm not saying I'm gonna go out and blow my head off, but you've experienced that darkness, like we talked about you, you

might be more prone to it or not, but the point is, this journey of growth continues.

I'm not gonna come out and be like, I am saved. I am healthy,

I am healed. That'll never be the case. This is a lifelong thing. But what it did do for me was clarify, like I keep repeating that. The things that I like, the things that I don't like and what I am willing to do, what I'm willing to spend my time while I am alive on. So

Sammy: Maybe, maybe we could even say it. Simplified 

TJ: did, it did it, it I it know, for example, I like the music. I like, I like the concerts that I like going to, and I make no excuses for it. People are like, you know your little Marilyn Rock, reggae, sky reggae adjacent, music's fucking weird. Cool. I like going there and I like sitting there at some Darkside bar and listening to the music and walking away with rain ears and you know, with no voice.

'cause I sang every fucking word

cool. 

Sammy: So let me ask you a question. Were you doing that during the time that you were struggling?

TJ: I was not,

I was not. Music has always been a part of my life and I noticed that that's one of those things that I was not doing and I was just

not. Enjoying, quote unquote, the little things. It

was, everything had a sort of end, like, like it was almost like a means to an end. Like, if we go to this concert, it's because it has to be a date night or

if this, then that.

It wasn't just pick up and go like, the trip to Denver that I'm taking here

soon. It wasn't like a big plant thing. I'm like, I can swing it. I think for a while I didn't know where I was gonna be spending the night. Like, let's go, let's just do it. Because there's, there's beauty in that, in, in those things.

So no, I

was not doing any of those,

any of those little things, if you will.

Sammy: Mm-hmm. And not, and, and not to oversimplify suicide or 

TJ: Jesus. 

Sammy: right. Or depression or anything like that, but it, there is an understand, there has to be an understanding that it, it isn't that complicated. It doesn't need to be that complicated. And sometimes when we overcomplicate stuff is where we get stuck,

TJ: Meaning what? Meaning overcomplicate The recovery. Overcomplicate

Sammy: all 

TJ: addressing it.

I mean, I do think that whenever we hear the S word, people are like, but I think the real shock would be if we poll firefighters one by one. How many have thought about it? How many

have 

Sammy: would say probably most.

TJ: Considered it? Because

you know, the thought of losing your faculties, the thought of losing a limb, the thought of losing like so many things that you're like, nah, I'm just gonna check

out.

Bye. 

Sammy: So maybe a way, like what I get a tangible way to explain what I mean is, is simplifying. This would be, Hey firefighters, you're all gonna fucking think about this at some point. Let's just tell, let's just live in reality, that will happen. And when we say that and we normalize it, it's not so distant, complicated, strange, weird, uncertain, right?

We can just make it a part of our discussion to say, here's some things you can do now. Knowing that you are at a higher risk of these thoughts and these, this journey, right? Like, I don't know, I, I don't know if I'm making sense. I just think sometimes we get, like we were talking about earlier, you know, conferences and, you know, health stuff and wellness stuff is so over complicated now.

It doesn't need to be, it's about our cellular level. Are we taking care of ourselves? How are we taking care of them? Our cells are what makes us good and we can go all the way back to the basics to take care of them so that we have a foundation to deal with injury that we will sustain from the job.

Mm-hmm.

TJ: And I think that speaks to also a way that I, that I tend to look at it is I walked that dark path. I walked into, like I got close to that, to the edge of the abyss, if you will. So now it's not such a foreign unknown place. Now, if my life ends up in a way that I end up close to that business again, can look at it and be like, okay, it looks. Just the same

way as I left it. It's nothing new. It's nothing to be scared of. It's like, all right, it's a dark cave or like it's a dark precipice. Been here and the cool part is pulled myself out of it before so it

can happen again. Let me think

about my music and my sugar skulls and, and cranking up the intensity in

that light. 

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: Who would've thought a fucking sugar skull in a taco joint bathroom was gonna be my lifesaving grace?

Sammy: Yeah. But instead of the, what you were saying when we talk about suicide or the word comes across the

TJ: Yeah.

Sammy: that's very different. The, the way that you just described it is very different than the shock factor and the, we don't talk about that factor and. That doesn't happen here, or the job kills you like it does.

None of none of those are true. None of them are true. True. Let's just take care of ourselves. It's not complicated.

TJ: Yeah. It's, and it's, it's not worth. It's not complicated and

Sammy: I guess the one thing I wanna say as I'm saying that out loud is it doesn't mean that people's situations aren't 

TJ: yes, 

Sammy: don't wanna invalidate where somebody is at. I wanna make sure that people hear me when I say, you know, life is 

TJ: It's just the solution is simpler than we think. 

Sammy: correct?

TJ: it is finding ourselves in that dark spot doesn't mean we are beyond saving. It doesn't mean that

it is over. We will find ourselves there, but getting out is way, way simpler than we have been led to believe, and that we tend to believe it's, it's those

things that, that we keep repeating.

Sammy: Maybe what we can say is it's as simple as different than 

TJ: Yes, yes. 

Sammy: It doesn't mean that it's easy. Right. Because if it was, then I would not have a job. You know? Like every firefighter would be taking, everything would be fine and we'd all be good. Like that's not, it's not easy. It's really hard, but it's simple.

TJ: Yeah, it's back to the basics and putting in those reps. Exhausting rep after

exhausting rep, because you have no energy at that point. You are just,

you're walking through darkness. You just need to say, I mean, that's what I would just, I'm like one day, one day one.

Like, I'll do it some other time. I'll do it some other day and just keep pushing it off and clawing your way out of it.

Sammy: Have you ever thought about what you did? Like what if you can go back, because it's easy for me to explain this to people. Then maybe it sounds really invalidating or like, oh, so the therapist is just saying, this is simple and okay. Like, fuck her. Right. But I guess like, can you, would it, could, could you describe now looking back how you walked your way out of the hole?

TJ: I mean, it was legitimately not easy and it's been years at this point and it's still a, still walking that path. And I had to fundamentally change my life before,

before I ended it. I, like I said, that relationship didn't survive, so I walked away from that. It was, that was, you know, you almost have to cut that limb out.

Not that I'm invalidating the relationship, but it was just, I'm like this, this is just going to take a lot more energy than I have to give, and it's just gonna keep dragging me down. Not the person, the relationship. Let me make that clear.

Sammy: So that was a con That's just to kind of frame it into tangible things for listeners is that is a controlling your controllable. So what can you control in your life that isn't serving well? No, I know that's a lame thing to say. Isn't, isn't serving you, is the 

TJ: You, you have 

Sammy: say, but isn't giving you, isn't giving you something good, right?

Like, is draining you, is toxic, is pulling you back into the hole. How can I control those things and get rid of them, right?

TJ: It, it, it's a matter of triaging what you have and

where you want to be and making those really difficult decisions. Because in an ideal world, everything would work out fine. Like we'd be together, we'd be married, everything would be wonderful in the fire service. That's not reality. What I had to

do is I had to sit there and say, what things do I need to change right here, right now, and also in the future to get myself out of this hole?

And I can say that clearly now, but at the time, I wasn't thinking at the time. I just

said, I need to get the fuck outta here.

Like, I am done. I need peace. I need quiet. So that was the first

thing I 

Sammy: the imm, the immediacy thing was, what can I do right now that isn't 

TJ: No, exactly. That isn't that like

death is in my control, but also changing the circumstances. You know, I got those thousand paper cuts, I can put my hand over them and staunch the bleeding for a little bit while I think,

and that was one step, let me, let me walk away from this because my mind, I, I did not have a quiet, peaceful sanctuary at home

to get away from everything in the fire service and the rest of life.

It was not, it was just

how things 

Sammy: so let's, let's get weird here just for people to know. So TJ had the ability in that moment to triage, let's say you don't, women and men out there, there are ways to do that, like you were suggesting, um, getting this out of my life. So you could focus on yourself. And I'm not saying that in inpatient services are the way to go, but there are services specifically for first responders that just work with first responders to help with crisises such as suicide so that they can help you get out of that hole and put all the distractions aside while you work on that.

So if you are in a place out there and you don't have the ability like you did, to be like, okay, well I can, even though it was difficult, you still could quote, unquote, could triage if you can't. Maybe the step is going somewhere you could, there are some, some fantastic places that are legitimately for first responders, and maybe we can link those in 

TJ: Absolutely. In the episode notes.

And I got lucky in that regard. Like you said,

that I still had control, right? I have a gun

in my hand. I have control of that, but I also have the control to make these choices, to start pulling myself out of this hole

and those inpatient facilities, which if you listen to. At all. Anything that we talk about keep the problems. We don't demonize those. We are, I,

I know so many, so many close friends who have been there, and it is not a stigma, it is not a sign of weakness. They come out so much better human beings than they were before and so much more well-rounded, if you will, which is the whole goal of, of keep the promise and that could, that is a possibility to, you know, that that's your parachute.

That is a parachute. Instead of

being like, I'm crashing down with this plane or I'm going

down with the ship, you pull that rip cord and there will be brothers and sisters helping you out. At least putting you in an environment where you can start those steps of

healing that 1% every

single day. And I'm not saying 1% better, right?

We all love to flex that and jerk off through this

quote. It's like 1% better every day, 

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: just. Make that 1% effort not to end your life every single day

and, and go from there.

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: Somebody who got to the point that I did that was ready to pull the trigger literally and figuratively, but didn't

and, but they may still feel dead inside. What, what advice can you give them? would you say? I come to you and I'm like, Hey, um, here's the gun, here's the bullet. Didn't do it. Obviously I'm here,

but I'm still not, I'm still not enjoying my taco joint bathroom sugar skulls.

What? Um, 

Sammy: Well, I think there's some steps. So I don't know, like four or five maybe. First you have to acknowledge your reality, right? Like you have to be able to say, here's who I am. I am having this sense of dying inside or feeling dead inside. That's grief, right? You, there's a version of you that's lost and we have to name that and say that to have any sort of power over it.

If it stays inside of us and we keep that loss and grief inside and we don't acknowledge it, there's nothing that you can do about it. 'cause it will just keep killing you. So the first thing is you have to be able to acknowledge it. Um, so if somebody came and said that, I would acknowledge that with them, right?

I would kind of share that and like, thank you for telling me, and this is so important that you're saying this out loud. Um, there is so much power and externalization, which is just saying how you think outside of yourself. So talking, because now you are getting, you're, you're acknowledging that you're not there in this moment, but you were there and so here is a different moment.

Um, then it's like, okay, well you chose not to. There was hesitation. Maybe it's not consistent, but what is that hesitation about? Like, we need to dig into that. Like what is that hesitation and uncertainty? Where does it come from? Just like if you were having a trauma memory or, um, let me reframe that. A call memory so that you keeps coming up for you.

Like you, you know, you think about it randomly, it pops into your brain, right? Intrusive thought about up call. Um, in trauma therapy, what you should be doing is understanding why it keeps coming up, not just that it does, right? So what is it about this call that is affecting you and that you're not connecting to?

So the second thing would be is understanding what that is that caused you to hesitate. Um, okay, so next it's how do you rebuild? So now that you are here and you are alive, we're doing what your BA do, your basic shit, right, moving, connecting, you know, thinking about your purpose. Um, tackling habit, forming things that will get you to the motivation factor.

That's super, super important. What can you do right now when you leave this office or when you get off the phone with me? Um, and make it simple, right? Sim something simple that they can do. So give them something to do immediately. That's a do basic shit taking care of themselves. Then, um, encourage them to share if they have people that they can, like community, because silent battles, right?

This battle that they're potentially having. With themselves is thriving because they're isolating, right? They're keeping it to themselves. So it's growing when we keep it to themselves. But when other people know about it, it starts dying a little bit, right? It doesn't have as much power. So starting to encourage them to share with somebody, whether that's the therapist or it's another friend who is it outside of therapy or counseling or whatever form of that they're coming to help for who is your person outside of here that can help you with that so that you make sure that you are not isolating in your silent war that's going on.

Um, and then just kind of reminding them that this isn't the end, like you chose it to not be the end. So what's the story now? Where do you wanna go from here? What story do you wanna start telling about your life because you didn't pull it? You didn't, you didn't die. So what are we gonna do with that concept after we've acknowledged, remembered that there was hesitation starting to build, uh, build themselves back up with their, their basic needs.

Um, finding a support person to talk to, like, now what are we gonna do with this story?

TJ: I particularly like that last part because it's, um, we're, we're going back into the poetic, it

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: life looks different and it feels different. It tastes different after the fact. It's, um, feels more colorful, it feels more real, um,

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: kind of more raw. And,

Sammy: Mm-hmm.

TJ: but I think, I

think real is the word. Yeah. 

Sammy: Yeah. And, and it, you know, it's like you came that close. You can't go backwards, but what can you do more moving forward? Right.

TJ: yeah. Yeah. And uh, I think if I, if I were to, if I could travel back in time and meet TJ at that point. It or anybody who's, who's experiencing the same thing, I would try to change that narrative from brokenness to being burdened. And it said, you're, you're not broken. You are under, you're carrying a heavy burden it's not supposed to be carried alone. The fire department, that your people are there for you. And if all that, I wrote it down like, if all you can do today is just not to make it worse, then you did enough.

Maybe that 1% is just staring at that gun, staring at that bullet and being like, nah, not today, before we get to building those things and building up and crawling outta that hole. And I think that that's a, that's a powerful reframing because sometimes we, the, the alpha types that we are can be like, oh my God, I couldn't do it today. I couldn't heal, I couldn't be better. But staying in that spot and not slipping further down that hill, that itself is a win. That

is, you're still in the same place.

You're not lower down. So let's go. Stay there as long as you can, and when you have the energy, start climbing.

Sammy: Mm-hmm. Well, and that's perspective, I mean, right, what you just described as perspective. Perspective is a choice. Nothing is good, bad, it just is, right? So it get to choose. What your story is today, as hard as it is to do that when you're in a hole, you can say, my story today is that I didn't kill myself.

Instead of saying, I just can't get, I can't fix this, or I can't, I'm not getting better. Mm-hmm.

TJ: I can't think of a better place to end this. Any, um, any closing reflections or remarks or calls to action for the audience?

Sammy: Hmm. I mean, maybe a lot, but that would take me a while. I think, you know, I think it's just, let's stop saying that it's weak to talk about this or to consider this, or if they're in this place, that that makes them weak. Um. What you did today. I mean, this is my life, so like, this is not hard for me. But what you did today required a lot of strength in the self and v vulnerability, which is strength because it's not the norm doing the same thing and fighting a silent war is what everybody's doing.

That's, that's the quote unquote easy thing to do because you don't have to step outside of your comfort zone. You don't have to talk about it. You don't have to do something weird and talk to a stranger or talk to somebody else struggling. So I just wanna really start to drive home the perspective that doing this and having conversations like this is the, is the strong thing, and it's the only way that we can change the story of helpers can't ask for help or helpers can't be honest about how they're doing.

TJ: , Thank you so, so much for doing this . , everything that you said was was perfect. If, um, those listening, if you are experiencing those really dark suicidal thoughts, 9, 8, 8 is the National Suicide Crisis Hotline. We are here, we're available.

It's not gonna be annoying or disruptive or anything. Reach out ,

um, yeah, and keep, it's that, it's that 1%. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what else to, to go with.

Sammy: Love you. Don't die.

TJ: Love. You don't die. Sammy, thank you so much.