085. The Firefighter Fixer Trap (And How To Break Out) [Part 1]

If you’re the “fixer” at home and in your firehouse, this episode will punch you right in the gut. Captain Brian Yonkin breaks down what changed since 2024—promotion to captain, hard family stress, and realizing he was running on fumes without calling it depression. We talk TRT, therapy, asking for help, and how being a dad made him a better leader. This is firefighter reality: you can’t pour from an empty cup and still think you’re “tough.”

What You’ll Learn:

• How to spot when you’re quietly burning out even if you think you’re “fine”
• Why “I’ll handle it” can turn into a slow mental crash—and how to start asking for help
• A simple way to lead better: be curious, not judgmental, and meet people where they’re at
• How to build calm focus when life is pulling you in 10 directions
• Why doing more for everyone else can wreck you—and how to stop being the default problem-solver

If you’re a firefighter who feels responsible for everything and you’re tired, stressed, or numb… this one’s for you.

Subscribe to the show and keep the promise you made — to yourself and your crew.

Transcript

TJ: Today's episode has us catching up with my friend Brian Yonkin, a captain at Harrisburg Bureau of Fire, and a repeat guest on the Keep the Promise Podcast. The last time Brian was on, we talked about cooking at the firehouse and then got real about imposter syndrome, and since then, life didn't exactly take it easy on him.

In this conversation, Brian opens up about getting hit with stress. He didn't even realize he was carrying what it looked like when it finally caught up to him. And the steps that he took to get back into a better place mentally, physically, and as a leader. We also get into the firehouse side. What changes when you go from being one of the guys to being the captain?

How he's trying to lead with curiosity instead of judgment and the system he built to do honest after action reviews, not just for tactics, but for communication, decision making and crew morale. If you've ever walked away from a shift thinking. Did I really handle that the right way? You're gonna want to hear that part.

So whether you're a senior guy trying to sharpen your leadership or a newer firefighter, trying to build a mindset that lasts, this episode is practical. It's real, and it'll give you some tools to steal. Let's get into it.

Speaker: Welcome to the Keep the Promise Podcast, where we help build resilient and well-rounded firefighters.

TJ: Give me the highlight reel from the last time we spoke in 2024 to now. So it's been almost two full years since your first appearance of the podcast. 

And that was when you were telling me about wanting to be a chef at the firehouse.

You're like, I wonder if they're hiring for just a chef position. 

Brian: yeah. 

TJ: And then afterwards we had a conversation about imposter syndrome and here we are two years later, so I'm sure a lot has changed and I'm sure a lot of things

have not changed. Talk to me.

Brian: Yeah, life punched me in the face for a little bit after I think our last conversation. It was, I wouldn't say it was rough, but I, I was dealing with stuff I didn't even know I was dealing with. But I, I'm fine now, so that's good. And it was kind of like a slow creep that it happened.

It was, it had to do with something that happened to my daughter and I had to go to court for, it was basically protecting her from like, some dude that was trying to touch her or whatever. So like got him arrested and then, went to court and stuff like that. That's stress. That's just, that'll stress you out.

Just thinking about that sort of stuff. And then, you know, just thinking, oh, did I make the right decision? Um, with that, you know, did I do all the right stuff? You know, I was beating myself up about my decisions around that. Um, switch shifts when I was a lieutenant, to go with my work with my buddies, on B shift for a little bit.

And then I got promoted, so I went back to my other shift with Beth Elli and D Shift and all those guys. So I was just like. I was only six months on a different shift, but it was, you know, it was a good little refresh. Um, little different opportunities and different mindset and different, things to think about.

And then I got promoted and to a captain. So I'm back on d shift on ladder two, uh, with some good dudes. So it's fun. It's different when I'm a captain up there 'cause I used to be a lieutenant up there and then they treated me different. But now that I'm their captain, it's different. So I get it.

'cause right before I was kind of like a substitute teacher and they can be a handful if you don't manage them correctly or set expectations thoroughly. So, that's probably like one of the biggest things, learning curves or whatever. But what else happened? Um. Yeah, I was depressed all of like 2025.

Didn't know that until I started, uh, testosterone therapy. 'Cause I was like, 

TJ: Oh 

Brian: well, I had all the symptoms, so I was like, oh, and it's not gonna get any better. I just turned 40. So I was like, yeah. And I would, I've been looking at it, looking at doing it for a while, so I was like. I turned 40 and I was like, I'm gonna do it.

So I started it and it was like a light switch, the second day I, on it I was like, oh, I didn't think I was depressed. Now I know I was. So, I was just, oh my gosh. 

TJ: When did he start it? 

Brian: Oh, it was in September.

It was like around my birthday. Yeah, it's been, I don't. Little shit doesn't bother me as much. Like I can think clearly, I can problem solve much better.

I sleep better. I grow muscle like fucking crazy, so I don't work out as much as I used to. Which also reduces the amount of stress on my body. I eat a lot. That's probably the only problem I have to like curb that. Haven't figured that out. But um, yeah, everything else is good. 

TJ: Bro. That's fascinating. It's funny you mentioned that a couple months ago I went to one of my friends from the volley house. He had his a birthday party for a first year birthday for his daughter. So invited, like all the old crew, I'm seeing dudes that I haven't seen in 10 plus years. And one of 'em is a guy that works in a department southeast of here.

Always been a massive dude, like 6 4, 6 5, like huge. The kind of 

Truckee that you like. 

Brian: Yeah. I got one of 

TJ: and when I saw him I was like, I don't know if he's sick or he got like, lap band surgery. So I just fucking asked him like, what the fuck's wrong with you? 'cause he was like toothpick thin. But. Like defined muscles. He told me TRT, he's like, he, he got it.

I think FSA covers it for him. He's been doing it. And same thing you said about the sleep. He's like, dude, my sleep has never been better. 

Brian: Yeah, it's 

TJ: might be a miracle drug for firefighters. 

Brian: uh, I know a lot of firemen that do it. A couple other guys at work do it too. So, I was just like, I knew all the benefits and it's a big decision, you know what I mean? It's not like something you should take lightly. And I tried to get it. I tried to get my levels to go up naturally 

Stress, trying to sleep better, lifestyle changes, and it's just all the bullshit that was going on in my life did not help at all.

The schedule at work doesn't help. You know, you could run things perfectly and it just. It is what it is and 

TJ: You need a little bit of an assist. 

Brian: yeah. So I'm okay with that. So I'm getting used to asking for help. I used to never do that, but now I do. 

TJ: You. So that is the part that I'm proud of you for. 

Brian: Oh, thanks buddy. 

TJ: Okay. But what's one thing that you're proud of since we last

chatted 

Brian: I, I was thinking about that. I was

like, oh man, I guess, um. I thinking, or I thinking back on this, I should say, uh, it would be probably getting promoted to captain, I suppose, for the fire service like that little goal or whatever. Family life, it would be like, having my kids, um, be okay with like talking to me about the most random stuff that happens to them at school.

' cause it means that they feel safe with me. You know what I mean? So, and then like, I made a whole bunch of new friends this year, started doing some hobby and stuff, and, uh, just having like those people show up to my birthday party were, well, it's cool. Like all the little things that I tried to do to get myself in a better space worked out, but, some of it didn't work out, so it was just like, you just gotta take the COO with the bad proud of myself or not.

I'm doing something dumb, I suppose. 

TJ: Dude, give yourself credit, all right. Like give, be proud of those things, those little things. Having people show up to a birthday

party, especially at our age, that's fucking solid. 

Brian: it was fun. It was a good time.

TJ: You know when you invite somebody like past the age of 30 somewhere, immediately they start looking for excuses.

They're like, okay, okay. I don't

have a dog, so I can't say my dog is 

Brian: Yeah. Yeah. 

TJ: fuck, my parents are at live out of the

country, so I can't say I'm visiting them. 

Brian: Was Friday during the day. They can't say their kids are in school.

TJ: . So, energy wise, from the, I don't wanna say rambunctious, but the other times that we've chatted. There's almost, and we've seen it in so many firefighters, that sort of almost chaotic energy that you can tell that somebody's just trying to figure out their place and do their thing and, oh God, maybe that was too much, or maybe that was too little.

And just from the quick conversations we've had since then, that energy feels a lot calmer and 

more

focused. 

Brian: Okay. Yeah, that's interesting.

TJ: So is it hard to keep that sort of energy these days, that sort of

focus? 

Brian: What do you mean by that? Like at work or?

TJ: In general? In general? Because you've talked about. Basically being pulled in these many directions from the depression side of things, and then the stress of, of dealing with your kids, obviously work induces its own stress, even though

we like to say it doesn't. 

Brian: Yeah. Anyway. He said it 

TJ: And somehow you keep that sort of calm energy.

Is it difficult to

maintain that calm energy? 

Brian: Oh yeah. Oh, it's absolutely d difficult. I spent a lot of last year focusing on like. Doing stuff for me. And I think that helped out a lot. Instead of just like, oh, you know, like the whole like fire service. Oh, I gotta, we're helping other people all the time. All the time, right? I'm a problem solver.

I got a problem. I gotta fix your problems. I gotta fix this person's problems. I stopped. I actively s have to not fix everyone's problem in my house. Like that's the biggest thing. Or wherever I go, I'm just like. Mind your own business, Brian? It's don't even yeah, that sucks. Oh, do you need my help?

No. Okay, cool. And I just kind of like, yeah, I picked up, some stuff to do by myself away from the house, and I think that just has a lot to do with me being more relaxed. It fits my brain space a little bit more. Keeps me focused. Um, we may have talked about it last time, but I can't remember.

But but yeah, I, and going to therapy definitely helps 'cause you talk to people or whatever and being like, Hey, this is what I'm doing, and they're like, yeah, you just you're a problem solver, so it's not get the fuck off or whatever. So, oh, okay. How do I do that? You've really gotta work on it.

All right? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. 'cause if you're always in this little space of I gotta go help this person. You are gonna burn yourself out. And it's just, it's obvious for me it was, anyway, now that looking back, hindsight's 2020, I guess, but 

TJ: Okay, let's continue with that perspective shift, because when we, in 2024, you were basically gearing up to be more of Brian, the dad. 

Like it was very obvious that there was, that, that sort of, you're saying I'm, you know, trying to spend more time with the kids. I'm trying to like the family focus. Was there, and as we've talked about, you know, the kids feeling comfortable talking with you about whatever.

As that shift happens, has it also shifted how you see the job? Has it changed your perspective on the job itself? Having that juxtaposition of family and the job in this whole new realm

basically. 

Brian: Yeah, I would say so. What I found is that like I'm more apt to be more curious, not judgmental when somebody says something. At the kitchen table or in, in some other conversation instead of being like, well that's, you shouldn't do that. Or, no, it's my way of the highway. You know what I mean? You just it's more respectful now that I've gotten older.

And you know, like people talk about the brotherhood and stuff like that and like, oh, he's a shitbag. This guy's a shitbag. Have you gotten to know this person? You know what I mean? Maybe he just wants to. He's not my a hundred percent and his a hundred percent are not the same. And that's okay.

I think we have to recognize, peop where they're at, find people where they're at, and then lead them to where you want them to do. Just, I mean, as a kid, like you gotta figure out, oh, why is he, why is he whining right now? Oh, he hasn't figured out how to, like, he hasn't figured out how to like regulate his emotions.

So I gotta be the emotion for him. Whereas this person, he might not know what he should be doing. You know what I mean? And if no one taught him that, and then you're, you're just gonna beat him up. He's gonna, he's gonna do what people normally do, right? You push somebody in the corner, they're gonna either defend themselves or they're gonna lash out, or run away, fight or flight, ev and then everyone's in fight or flight, right in the fire service. of all the bells and whistles and the sirens and the, we jump up at the, at any moment's notice, right? So your central nervous system is going crazy all the time. And if you can't deal with stress or haven't figured out a way to calm yourself down or just talk it out or not get enough sleep, too much caffeine, nicotine, all the other guilty pleasures in life, like it's just gonna go bad. And then that adds to it. Taking a step back and then being like, okay, I gotta take care of myself so I can take care of my kids also helps me take care of the guys at work. Um, ' cause it's just kind of like they're family members. Is that up at that point?

You spend enough time with them? Hey, how's your day going? That's just that fucking simple question. You guys got anything planned for the four days off or whatever? Like, oh, he is actually gives a shit about me or whatever. Um, sometimes I'm not good about that 'cause I got my own shit in my head that I'm dealing with.

But, I try, so I,

TJ: Is that how you can figure out what your people's a hundred percent level is? Those basic personal conversations.

Brian: I. No, just like the little drills that we do at the kitchen table. Like, Hey, I've been listening to other people's podcasts and I found like this really cool drill idea Who gets this coffee pot, old coffee pot or coffee? Can we fill it with addresses on pieces of paper or pull one out? Hey, where's this at?

And you can just tell by their description of their, of, if it's close or if it's been they haven't been there in a while, or if they've been there a lot, be like, oh. They're more dug in than you think they are. You know what I mean? Or, yeah, he's a driver. He should know where he is going.

Or, oh, this guy's new. He doesn't know the layout of the city yet. That makes sense. Or, is he asking certain questions about this building that he should be? Or is he asking relevant questions? 'cause you could just be asking questions to sound like you're interested. And I can see through that.

I'm old enough to know that, and I hate those kind of people, but they do, they exist. And I usually call 'em out on it, but whatever. But yeah, like their follow up questions on drills or trainings or just life in general, and just being a part of a group. Definitely helps. Like if you want to be that, sigma, it is the sigma dog or whatever, like the outsider.

Yeah, that's great, but no one's gonna want to be your friend. You just lack social skills, I think we've talked about that before, but 

TJ: Don't we all? 

Brian: the people that usually are in, in charge of the firehouse are the ones that speak up and take care of things and take care of each other, so. And try to take care of the guys.

I look out for 'em. So if they do, if they're gonna get in trouble, I'm gonna be like, Hey, she probably shouldn't do that. Or, Hey, I'm gonna talk to somebody, see if I can get that fixed. Uh, the other day something happened and uh, one of the chiefs, the management chief came up to me, he was like, Hey, I wanna talk to you.

And I said, oh, is this about this thing? And he's like, yeah, yeah. I was like, I already talked to him. This is what happened. And uh, he wasn't trying to be stupid, he was just. The one it guy told him to do something and he did it. So this guy being this guy's like, all right, I'm gonna take every opportunity to do that.

So I was like, he didn't mean to be an asshole. It just, it's the way it worked. He's like, oh, okay, that makes sense. So you just, if you can get ahead of stuff like that, it's great, but sometimes it doesn't always work. 

TJ: Okay, so let's dive more into those, those leadership challenges, if you will. That sounds like it was a pretty straightforward, right, you were ahead of the, of the game, ahead of the curve. I forget what the expression is, but basically you knew what was happening and by the time the come up and came, you're like, I got it.

It's been dealt. It's been dealt with. Has there anything that happened since we chatted? Some sort of leadership headache, if you will. That you dealt with that after the fact, you're kind of second guessing yourself. Kind of like when you talked about the issue with, with your daughter that you know you had did, did you have that situation at work where you came home and you were like, did I do it well?

Did I not do it well? Could I have done it

differently? 

Brian: Oh yeah. That, that sort of thing happens all the time. I don't have a specific example because, uh. I have like a, a set questionnaire that I have for situations, mostly for fire scenarios. But I'm trying, I'm slowly working on one for one. I mean the firehouse. 'cause obviously that happens more often.

Stuff happens more often in the firehouse than it does on calls. And you have to be honest with yourself. Like, Hey, did I do, did I communicate effectively? Did I set the expectation? Did I listen to their concerns? Yes or no? You know what I mean? Honest, yes or no, right? Because you can be like, oh, I listened, but did you really listen?

Did you really hear them? Are you listening to understand or are you listening to respond? You know what I mean? And I feel I, I. I think I do a good job of that. And you could ask the guys in my firehouse if that's true or not, but for the most part I believe it is. And other questions similar to those sort of things, so it's not like I'm thinking about it for a week because there's just gonna be something else that happens next week that if you don't kick, if you don't flush outta your brain, you're just gonna get piled up.

You're gonna have, uh, what they call, um, eventually it's called Peter. I think it's Peter. Peter Syndrome or something like that. It's a, I forget what it's called or the term for it, but like it's you get promoted to, in a position where you can't handle things, like you're one, one head, one position ahead of where you are cognitively capable of handling those issues.

It might be, it's a Peter principal, I think it's called and that I could have. Completely messed up. How, what 

TJ: you're something about Peter Pan 

Brian: And it's not necessarily the Peter pin where you're you're 

TJ: you're never gonna grow 

Brian: never gonna grow up, and you're stuck in your

little space for a little bit. You refuse to like, take responsibility and stuff like that.

It's not like that. It's just you are, you haven't gotten the training or the, um. Or the mentorship to do things properly in your position, which a lot of fire service, officers, they have that. You see it all the time. Probably you see it in business, you, it's that one manager that you're like, ah, man, dude, just, he's a nice 

TJ: How are you 

Brian: Yeah, exactly. You make

the stupidest decisions or you don't make a decision at all, you know what I mean?

And you're like, ah. He almost had it, but you can't fault them at that point, right? ' cause they get promoted so quickly and they haven't had time to, uh, learn their positions or get the training or mentorship or they, they think they, they know everything and they, maybe that's just an ego thing or whatever.

But, uh, it's a lot of introspective things that people don't do, that I think. I handle pretty good and maybe I don't, you know, I'm always off base sometimes, so I'm not saying I'm a hundred percent all the time. I got my own shit that I gotta work on. But, for the most part, I do a good job. I think so.

TJ: Let's go back to this questionnaire because I find that fascinating that you have an actual, when you first said like a fire ground questionnaire, I'm like, oh your typical size up or tactics or strategy sheet. I didn't realize that it, like it. I had no idea that it was. For you for doing like an after action review of your interactions with people on the

fire ground, what sort of questions are on there 

Brian: Lemme

TJ: you creating that? 

Brian: what precipitated, so I ha I have, um. I got it from somebody else. Obviously it wasn't even fire service related. It's a it's a strategy game questionnaire, how to get better at it. And, um, I was like, oh, what if I, what if I adjusted this for the fire service? Where are they? Hopefully this isn't run too much time.

I have to look for it. It's on my computer at work. I made it on my phone

TJ: While you look for it, I think it's fascinating because. Obviously I've been leaning heavily into the business side of life recently and learning things and you know, it's a whole new field that I have zero clue about. And a pattern that I've realized that most high achievers, especially in that world have is that

everything is systematized, including their thinking.

They're basically offloading thinking and decision making to whatever algorithmic ideas they came up with. then acting accordingly and shaping the world around them that way. So seeing somebody make use of that in the fire service, again, to me it's fascinating because we have that crossover and it works so well in business that I can only imagine it's gonna work well in the fire service.

When you're taking the time to be introspective and to say, did I handle that well? Did I listen? Was I actually actively listening? What did I learn? What did I teach? Did I walk away from that interaction being like,

Ooh, that was not my best. 

Brian: I'm, I'm working on, do I wanna be a battalion chief? If I am gonna be a battalion chief, am I gonna be a good one? So I have at least a solid, I would say a month and a half as a battalion commander or a shift commander when my battalion chief goes on vacation. So it's like all summer basically.

I'm the boss, so I was like, I'm gonna have plenty of experience. Like I did it this summer. I didn't do anything crazy. I had one incident that Ridley was like, yeah, maybe I should. Look back at this and be, um, thorough about my decisions and, you know, be honest with myself. Because I'm, there's no one else is gonna help me.

And they're not like, Hey, you do, you know what happens to me? They, they go, oh, you did a good job. Keep it up. You know what I mean? And I go, Hey, what do you think I should do? And you're like, oh, yeah, you're fine. So I learned that a long time ago because I'm a high of achiever and I'm just like.

I'm self-motivated and, um, I don't get. That c constructive criticism that I would like to improve, or if I did it was because I was doing something egregious that I didn't know about. I, like, you didn't tell me your expectations and now I'm in trouble. Oh, okay. And when you do that to me, and I'm a little shithead, so I'm just like, I'm gonna push back you know what I mean?

So, oh, okay. I got it. Right, wrong or indifferent. That's just my, it's probably a gene flaw, I should say. But anyway, so here are the questions. So this, for one I run command or any officer stuff. Um, the first section, well, there's a couple sections. One is decision making, one is instant management, one is team dynamics and morale.

Personal performance, wellbeing, learning and growth. And then broader contrast, I don't think I will tell, maybe not those ones. Uh, anyway, so there each one has like five or six questions. Uh, in the beginning, the decision making and leadership, did I make clear, timely, and effective decisions during the incident? What influenced my choices? Were my priorities aligned with the incident's demands, IE life, safety, incident stabilization, property conservation?

Did I effectively assess the risks to my crew and the public? Could I have mitigated any risks differently? How well did I communicate my orders and intent to the team? Were an, were there any misunderstandings or unclear instructions? Did I delegate tasks appropriately considering my crew's strengths, experience, and fatigue levels?

Did I balance, maintain, maintaining command presence with being approachable and supportive to my team? Incident management is the second one. Or second section, did I accurately read the incidents dynamics, fire, behavior, structure, integrity, environmental factors? What signs did I miss? If any, you know, you can get, tunnel vision anytime.

So that helps me kinda like focus to be like, oh, okay, well I have to, like why to my vision or whatever. Uh, where are my tactics and strategy effective in controlling the incident? What could I have done differently to improve the outcome? How well did I coordinate with other units, agencies, or mutual aid partners?

Were there any breakdowns in interoperability? Did I make effective use of available resources? Could resource allocation have been optimized? How did I handle unexpected challenges or changes during the incident? Was I adaptable under pressure? Section three, team dynamics and morale. Did I foster a sense of unity and trust within my crew during the incident?

How did my leadership style impact their performance? Uh, were there any signs of stress, hesitation or conflict among the team? How did I address or fail to address these issues? How did I provide sufficient support or direction or to less experienced firefighters? How can I better mentor them in the future?

How did I acknowledge or reinforce positive actions by my crew? Did I miss opportunities to build morale? Did I model the professionalism and resilience I expect from my team? Personal performance and wellbeing is the fourth section. Did I manage my own stretch and emotions during the incident? This is a big one for me 'cause I try to remain calm as much as possible.

'cause obviously if you're freaking out, everybody else is freaking out. Uh, did I remain calm and focused under pressure? Did I feel physically and mentally prepared for the demands of the incident? Uh, what can I do to maintain or improve my readiness? Were there moments where I doubted my decisions or actions?

What triggered those doubts and how can I address them? How did this incident affect me emotionally? Am I processing these feelings constructively? Did I take care of myself? Post incident, rest, hydration, food, et cetera. Learning and growth. What were the key lessons from this incident? How can I apply them to future responses or incidents?

Were there gaps in my training knowledge or skills exposed by this incident? What steps am I trying to address them? Did I effectively debrief my team after the incident? What feedback did I receive and how can I act on it? How did this incident align with or challenge my department? Standard operating procedures?

Should any SOPs be revisited? Uh, I don't. Typically I ask myself that one. The second part of that question what did I learn about my leadership style or decision making process that I can refine for next time? Broader con text is the last section. How does this incident fit into my overall experience as a fire captain?

Does it highlight pattern in my, does it highlights patterns in my leadership or areas for growth? Growth. Did I uphold the trust and expectation placed on me as a leader in my crew department and community? How can I share my insights from this incident to improve training or preparedness for my team or department?

Did I seek or provide feedback to other leaders to strengthen our collective responses? And that's it. So 

TJ: Damn. 

Brian: I helped, uh, I had gr help me out 'cause I was like, I have all these things that I wanna learn. Help me out. 

TJ: Okay. That's solid, dude. 

And you do that after the majority of calls. 

Brian: The big ones like the, not like, oh, a fire alarm or whatever. 'cause those are pretty standard, but anything that's 

TJ: it take you? 

Brian: Five,

10 

minutes. 

TJ: Interesting. Okay, dude, I got, seriously, I gotta get that list from you and, and link it to the 

show notes. 'cause I guarantee you people are gonna want 

Brian: Yeah, probably. 

TJ: Even a couple of those, like the, you touched on the. Did I remain calm? That immediately brought up a memory of a call that we ran on the side of 95. It came in as like, oh, a Jeep got hit. And we show up and the Jeep is hit and then look off into the distance. It's at night. And there was a tractor trailer off the side of the road 'cause that's what hit the Jeep.

And the dude wasn't trapped. I mean, it took a while to get him out. I think he almost lost a foot or something. But he was alive. He was fine. But I remember that a truck company got there, and I think he might be a captain by now. The officer literally started kicking equipment and stretchers and stomping his foot down, being like, I need this right here, right now.

Like. A tantrum to, and look, when we showed up, we were outgunned, right? Because it was an engine and a really not well equipped rescue engine. So nobody was like, nobody had any tools for extrication. We knew we had to wait, but we were doing what we could. Everybody was stabilizing and making sure everything was ready for when everybody else showed up.

And here you go, he here it is like wrapped up in a nice bow. Have at it. And then he shows up and just starts throwing a tantrum. Every, like, you could tell the energy and the vibe immediately shifted. Like we're like, why? Why is somebody suddenly screaming, especially the guy who's supposed to make this better?

We should be screaming 'cause we are. Like completely shit outta luck. But we're just fine. We know that help is coming. It was, IM dude that like came back so quickly when you said that I remain calm 'cause

if I'm freaking out, everybody else is freaking out. 

Brian: Oh yeah. 

TJ: that took the incident from a nice even keeled incident to just pandemonium for a while.

And what was telling is that some officers reached out to him after the fact and the dismissiveness. Basically said you guys were not doing the right thing. I had to come in and put my foot down. You know when one person tells you, Hey, you fucked up. Okay. When multiple are like, Hey dog, can we talk about it?

That might be an indicator that might be feedback that ooh, I didn't do so hot. 

Brian: yeah, Most people aren't ready for that

though. 

TJ: No, most people are not ready for the level of introspection.

Brian: Most people don't want, well, they, they want it to be safe for them. They want it to be they don't want it to hurt their ego, which is fine. I guess that makes sense. We're all a little scared kids, trying to grow up.

TJ: Okay. We're talking about how you're growing. We are talking about you reshaping your belief system and. The steps that you're taking and the systems that you're putting in place to grow and evolve and optimize, and a lot of times growing and evolving and optimizing also means getting rid of previously held beliefs.

Is there anything about yourself that you have gotten rid of entirely since we

last chatted? 

Brian: The false beliefs thing. 

TJ: Maybe not false beliefs per se, but I think with growth you can look back at some of the things that you've done and you can say,

that doesn't serve me well anymore. 

Brian: yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I always used to have a problem, like speaking up. My voice would crack a lot. I'd have to clear my throat before I said something. Now I just like. There are signs that I'm uncomfortable doing it, but like I, I'm more apt to do it. Uh, speaking up, outta turn, I should say.

When growing up, my dad and my brother used to over talk over me, so it was like, oh, my opinion doesn't matter, so I'll just shut up when somebody starts talking over me or they interrupt me. It really fucking annoys me for one thing. And then, I just go, oh, okay, nevermind. It's not important where I just go, I have told people you're interrupting me right now.

Or I go, or I just, I just go, yeah, all right, nevermind. And they're like, what are you, what? They just, I say, well, you're not fucking listening to me, so what's the point of me speaking up at this point? Um. So defending myself in those situations is definitely interesting. The older I get, the less I am okay with people walking all over my toes.

Uh, I should say. And if you're a leader, you kind of have to speak up. So I've done a lot to try to help myself speak up. I put myself in uncomfortable situations where I have to speak up, uh, almost weekly, going on podcasts, you know, helps. Doing stuff like this. Oh, and my opinion's out there, people hear it.

You know what I mean? And a couple of guys would be like, oh, I listened to your podcast. I'm like, which one? Because I've done a couple. And they're like, what? And they're like, uh, yeah. 'cause I have to, I recognized a long time ago, I was uncomfortable talking on the radio. I was uncomfortable speaking up. And I was like how do I do that?

Oh, I'll talk on a radio. This little microphone right here. Force myself into uncomfortable situations or force myself into conflict verbally, not necessarily physically, although I've done that as well.

TJ: You're out there just picking fights, aren't you? 

Brian: well, you go to my Thai

gym. Yeah. You're fighting all of that.

TJ: Are you talking shit during that fight though?

Brian: No, absolutely not. I know. Why not to, but yeah, stuff like that, you gotta work on those things or that's what I've worked on is speaking up voice, in my opinion. It's hard for me to do 'cause people over talk on me and I just noise a shit at me and I just shut down at that point. So I'm just like, okay, I guess you don't wanna hear what I have to say.

So it's disrespectful. I think it's when you over talk on somebody else, but it's a type A, it's a type A environment. Then type a's like to talk over each other. It's just like, oh, I wanna be hurt, I wanna be hurt, I wanna be heard, I wanna be hurt. And then the conversation started with this and then ended up some other place because of their opinions and thoughts.

And it's like, how did we get here? You guys were talking about sports and all of a sudden you're, I don't know what you're talking about. It's almost like. If they have something to say and they just wanna say it, and they just brought it to that somehow. I don't know what it is, but it's interesting to watch.

TJ: There is something about those social dynamics where you can almost watch. And you, it's almost like a premonition that you know that this person has something that they're going to work in the conversation that has no bearing, but they're just waiting and trying to mold it just so they can

say it.