088. Is Telling Your Story Self-Centered… or Service? (Part 2)

Is telling your story self-centered… or is it service? Jim Burneka walks through the real process of writing Overcoming Tuesday: from trauma-dumping the truth to turning it into a resource that helps firefighters get support. He explains the line between “look at me” and “this might save someone,” and why being uncomfortably honest is sometimes the most firefighter thing you can do. 

What You’ll Learn:

• The behind-the-scenes process of writing the book, and why the audiobook hits different
• How to decide if sharing your story is helpful or just venting with no solutions
• The real line between service vs. self-focus when you go public with your experiences
• What it costs to be vulnerable... and why some people will hate you for it
• Why retirement doesn’t “fix” you automatically, and what healing actually looks like after 

If you’re a firefighter who’s carrying heavy stuff and you’ve thought, “I don’t want to be that guy… but I also can’t keep pretending I’m fine,” this one’s for you. 

Transcript

TJ: Welcome back to the Keep the Promise Podcast. Today we are sitting down with Jim Burneka from Dayton Fire Department for part two of our series, and we're going deep into something that a lot of firefighters talk about, but very few actually do, and that is telling the whole truth in public. Jim wrote a book called Overcoming Tuesday, and we get into the process of how it actually came together, why he chose to make it a resource based book, and what it was like recording the audio book and reliving those moments out loud.

And then my favorite part, we hit the question that I've been sitting on for a long time is writing an autobiographical book, self-centered. Jim answers it. The only way that a firefighter can with no fluff, no pity party, and a clear line between seeking attention and choosing to serve. If you've ever thought to yourself, I'm dealing with stuff, but I don't wanna be that guy.

This episode is for you. We talk about becoming uncomfortable, honest, using your story to get help for others, and why vulnerability is not weakness. It's actually leadership. So let's get into it.

TJ: Is there an epilogue to this chapter two? Is there an end where you say, okay, I contributed what I had to contribute. Let's go do something else.

Jim: I don't think there has to be

I don't think you have to decide. You don't have to choose. There's no reason why

TJ: I.

Jim: you can't keep continuing to do whatever you're doing that's making you happy, but also look and start doing other things as well. That really comes down to the word is balance. And but I'm a believer that you don't have to decide and you don't have to stick with that decision, whatever it may be.

Like you're allowed to be fluid and. And go where your heart takes you or God or whatever it may be. Like, just having that ability to go with the flow as needed, I think is you've earned that right when you have reached retirement, but you can even do that beforehand. It all comes down to ultimately, like if I was have, having to use one word to describe that whole thing, it's priorities.

You figure out what your priorities are and they're going to change when you retire. And things are going to be different, like I am, clearly I'm still young. I retired. My poor wife, she's still working and she's still gonna be working for a while because she started late and she's younger than me, it's now my responsibility to make her life a little bit easier, as easy as it can be. And that means I failed today. But usually trying to have dinner ready when she comes home, running errands for her, just cleaning up the house, like doing little things, whatever it is to make her life easy because I can't, she and she, to her credit, she doesn't get in my shit.

But if tables were turned, I would all the time, here I am, I'd be going to work Monday through Friday, eight to four 30. While this, they're over there just laying on the couch, playing Mario Kart. I like. Like it, and it's, especially tj, it's the worst in the summertime when it's nice out.

And I've got the boys with me all day and we sleep in as she gets up early and goes to work. And it's we wake up and it's what kind of adventures do we wanna go on today, boys? And we go from there and the poor girl is still at work. So I have to, I have to really try to do my best to just help her out.

And again, she's understanding, she's not upset at me. She's not really jealous of me. At least not yet. At least she doesn't show me, tell me. But I have to stay on top of that stuff so she doesn't start feeling that way. 

TJ: Yeah, I like calling it priorities, I think it's important, as we've talked about and alluded to quite a bit, to realize that our priorities in life are going to shift we get older, as we go through our careers, as we go through our story, through our life, different chapters.

Which is a perfect segue to talk about this little thing that you created, because when we chatted, you were sitting there Zoom with. Your sister, sounds like she did all the work. You just trauma dumped on her and she did the writing. From what you told

Jim: A hundred percent.

TJ: my man outsourced a book and then put his name on it.

Jim: She like, all right. And so we had, I think I had an outline of around 50 chapters, 50 things to talk about. And I remember that first day she was like, what do you wanna talk about? And I think she thought that I would start off slow. I do some sort of layup chapter, something that's not really emotional, like I can mail it in.

That is not what I did, man. I went right into the worst of the worst kind of stuff. And she was instantly like, what the hell did I just get into? Because she knew some stuff, but she didn't know the majority of it. And she certainly didn't know what I was dealing with and how I was feeling and what was going on.

' cause I didn't tell anybody. So it very quickly she had to, she would tell you like, she had to almost detach herself from being the sister and having the feelings and just being the journalist and just sticking to the facts and just trying to get my story as, as accurate as a. I, she possibly could.

And I would tell you I went back in the fall of last year, and I recorded the audible of it. And and that was a pretty cool experience. And what I really learned by doing that is like she did an amazing job of truly capturing like my voice and my story. It didn't, it still felt authentic, even though it was really her words.

The only things that I would say is that it was clearly her and not me, is like she I tell everybody, she replaced my cuss words when I was talking to her with something about Jesus. So like throughout the book, for the most part. Most of that stuff she throws in there just because I was cussing or doing something.

So other than that though, like she did amazing job at my voice and and for those out there that are interested, man if you were to get a version of my book, I would tell you a thousand times over to get that audible or the audio book because it's, again, it's the same story, but it's got me telling you and it truly has my personality.

And you can tell, like I've had people tell and I could tell as I was reading it, they could tell when I was emotional. They could tell when this was affecting me. Like it's almost like you got just an added bonus when you get that version. It's just more intimate, it's more personal.

It's more me.

TJ: Yeah. On the topic of you, this is a question that's been burning in the back of my mind for a while writing, let's just call this a dam of your autobiography, right? It can be as an egotistical thing.

Jim: Sure.

TJ: a look at me, story is amazing. Thou sh listen to it because I am Jim. Did you deal with this at all?

Did you have that feeling in the back of your mind, or was it, let me tell these stories and have people learn what they may.

Jim: It is a great question and I knew when I was, when I finally decided to do it, and when I talked to my sister and I really laid out the parameters which were. I want this to be a resource book. I want this to help people. And if we can somehow use these resources that I used, like actually talk about them and point people to them, and if we can do that as we tell my story, I'm game for that, because I would tell you, I would go back in time a little bit.

The first time the thought of a book ever happened was, Bobby Hallen was still alive, and I remember doing an outline and this outline for what was supposed to be an article. The outline was like eight pages. And I'm sitting there going, this seems like more of a book than an article. And so I remember sending it to him and he basically said, it's a book if you want it to be.

And to me, like at that time, the way I was writing it, it was more of a textbook. And it is actually, I would tell you like what Dina Ali ended up coming out with the Hope Out of Hope, out of Darkness of Fire Engineering. I think that's what, like that book, if I would've started it, that's what it would've ended up looking but if anybody knows me, they know. Like I don't, I hate textbooks. Like I, that's not my style. Nothing. Sorry Dina, but that's just not for me. So the idea like again, can I just use the resources but share my story and provide help for people? And ultimately I think that's what we did.

That's what we pulled off. Like I know people have taken, read something and been like, oh my God, like I am dealing with this too. And they go right there and. They make the call and they start getting help. So it worked how it was supposed to. And and when I had my sister and I did a, it was the only time we did a book signing together.

She came into town and we had we had somebody come up crying and they told us like, I'm alive because of your book. It was at that point, like I had already had some of those, but it was the first time my sister had seen it or done that. And it was like, again, she realized like, wow, like this was a good thing that we did.

So I would tell you that it was worthwhile. And I didn't mind putting myself out there in my dirty laundry and I protected people that maybe I shouldn't have. But also at the same time, I didn't want it to be just a bunch of dirt and bring up even more stuff and make things worse.

I wanted to tell it how it was. I,

and I think at the time, like when I did protect people, like I was, we had worked some stuff out to where I felt like it was okay to do that and I wasn't gonna bury them. Now I tell you all that to say, last summer I was in a firehouse and I had one of the battalion chiefs and he didn't do this while there was anybody else there.

But when the truck left and it was just me in the bay waiting for my, waiting for them to come back I got chastised. I got told, how dare you come in this place? After you. You wrote this book, on the back of this guy's misfortune and made a profit off of him.

And you've got a lot of balls coming in here kind of thing. And it wasn't a good feeling, not really feeling like basically unwelcome at the firehouse. But again when I really took a step back, first of all, I called the guy that he was alluding to that I made a profit off of him.

And he was like, don't worry about that. You're fine. You're good, Jim. 'Cause again, everything I did like in that book, I had the blessing and the one person that didn't gimme the blessing, I just removed their name and still put the chapter out there and. It is what it is. But and but then I also realized if he would've actually taken the time to read it, he would've seen that this wasn't about me, for se like this.

I'm not trying to make me better than, or whatever else. I think if anything, like I really show that I had a, a lot of stuff happened to me, but I also wasn't innocent. I did a lot of dumb shit myself. I'm, I definitely wasn't an angel. But again, if he would've actually taken the time to read this, he would've realized what I was trying to accomplish.

And it certainly was not a money grab. It certainly wasn't to make a bunch of money. I still think I probably lost more money on the whole thing that made money. But it wasn't, it was never about that. Telling my story with the hope of helping others, and I accomplished that. And for that I would say that it was all worthwhile.

And I don't regret it.

TJ: Is that the line between service and self focus? Having somebody get help or having somebody get a meaning outta the book.

Jim: I hope so. Man it's what you make of it. I went and I taught a couple times about and basically did the presentation regarding like me and my book and my whole story. And it, those went well, but I would tell you that I feel uncomfortable doing that.

I just don't like, and this, everybody's gonna be like, really, Jim? You like print stickers of your face and like your challenge coin and all that shit. Really? But I do that more in like a joking manner when it really comes down to it. I don't, I just want to be in a corner somewhere.

I'm an introvert and extrovert body, which is weird to say, but that's, I think that's how I feel like that's what I've become, so yeah, I mean it's,

I did it, but I would also tell you that I felt uncomfortable doing it and I pretty much have stopped doing it. So I feel like. When I did the audiobook in a way that was me, my, alright, this is the end of that and it's onward to the next project or next thing you know. I've had thoughts of, I have had thoughts of doing a sequel, but I just don't know if there's enough substance there when you have a book that covers the first 44 years of your life and then you're gonna write a second book and it covers like the next three or four.

Like again, I don't, I just don't know if there's enough material there. Although I would say that there's enough lessons there because just because I retired didn't mean that, I was all, again, all good and fixed and happy and good because that was not the case. It was still a lot of work that needed to be done.

And I had a lot of help with that. So yeah, I don't know. There still may be a sequel, but that's not really a priority right now. I,

TJ: What is it gonna be overcoming Wednesday?

Jim: I thought about make, made it to Wednesday or some shit like that.

TJ: Fuck shit up

Jim: No. Hey, that was, I think I've told you that one before. That was I've had that one for years. I have not bought the website for that.

TJ: You better hurry up 'cause I'm about to do it. just gonna put your face on it. That's it. That's all gonna be on it. Okay, so say hypothetically, because I have zero desire to write a book. I don't have the attention span to write one, but say that I want to tell my story and I feel that a book would help in telling that story, but I feel weird about it. What do you tell me?

Jim: If your book is going to help others, then it's worthwhile to work through the awkwardness to make it happen. If you can contribute and you can make somebody else's life better or easier, why not do it? I think it's worth, it's worthwhile if you can accomplish that. If your book is just you bitching about something with no solutions I don't think that is, that's not where I'm going with all this.

But if it has fruitful advice about,

Hardships, but how you overcame those that's, those are great.

TJ: How old were you when you got into the fire department

Jim: I started when I was 19, 19 44.

TJ: Okay, so usually takes us a couple years to get our sea legs, if you will, in the fire department, 

Jim: sure.

TJ: four or five years to just get in the groove of things to understand how things work and to just 

Jim: may maybe for the typical person, tj, I was probably 10 or 15.

TJ: you are like, I retired, I had no idea what the fuck was

Jim: No those guys they would sit here and be like, tell, have Jim tell you about the laundry story. Like

TJ: You fuck up the laundry at like age 40 or something.

Jim: age, like 21 or 22.

TJ: Okay. No, you, that's still excusable, bro. Like

Jim: I'll tell you. Look, I'll tell you the story. I don't care. I'll put myself out there. It's okay. Had a call, got blood on my uniform, whatever.

TJ: Oh God.

Jim: Throw it in the washer. The was is fine. No big deal. It's time to go in the dryer. Now I am used to the little fabric sheets and I didn't have any of them on me, so I asked my friend, Tim, that I was working with, if he had any of them, and he said, no, but I have this fabric softer and the liquid fabric softer.

And I'm like, okay, and you already know where this is going. But sure enough, I put it in the lid and threw it in a dryer and there's, and where the washer and dryer was, it was right by where the TV was in a little smoking session. That section that kind of tells you how old this stuff is anyway.

And the guys that are out there are smoking looking at me and going, what the hell is he doing? And I just, nobody ever taught me like about fabric softener, like liquid fabric softener and how it needs to go in the wash, not the dryer. So yeah, I was, yeah, it took me a while to grow up.

TJ: How did your, how did the clothes come out? Were they stiff, like they were starch?

Jim: Oh, like they, they caught me before I started and they, got a towel and cleaned it all up and like they, those guys didn't realize like they had to, they were still essentially at that time babysitting me, which is, which I tell you now is hilarious to think I was being babysat back then. But I also would tell you, at the very end of my career, I was also being babysat when I came back from the center of excellence again, still not right in the head, still struggling.

I, I started restrict and most people, by the way, I think I was the only one that didn't go right back to full duty. I asked to go to restricted duty ' cause I just knew I, I wasn't ready. And to their credit, they put me at radio repair. Which was a building completely isolated from any other fire department, police, anything.

It was just, it was hidden with all the street workers, the 

TJ: dPW.

Jim: The trucks and, wa all that stuff. It was in that area. So I had one guy with me who was a really good friend, and I knew, like when we, when they put us together, like I knew that either like we were gonna even become better friends or we were gonna be worst enemies 'cause we were gonna fight.

Fortunately we never fought. And in fact the truth is he basically babysat me for the next three months. Because I was just not, I'm still not in a good way. And I did my 90 days restricted duty and they would not extend it. Because they did not consider what was going on an on-duty injury.

That's could be a whole nother episode. But when I'd left and burned up all my leave and until really the pension thing happened, five months later. So it's funny. At the beginning of the job I was basically babysat and at the end also babysat.

TJ: Yeah, it's 'cause we always refuse to grow up, right?

Jim: Yeah. Definitely right then. Like I was very toddler like at that point in time.

TJ: So other than throwing fabric softener into the dryer, I wanna, I want to go back to you at age, I don't know, anywhere between 21 and let's call it that crazy twenties. What sort of belief or thought permeated your attitude back then that you would love to correct for the future of your generation? We've talked about exposure, we've talked about mental health, we've talked about all of those things. What's one more, one more thing that you wish somebody had come up to you at that age?

Put his arm around you, be like, Hey man, don't fuck this up like I did.

Jim: To set up, to set us up for retirement. I think the answer to that question would, for me at least, would be a good financial influence. Somebody that knew. Truly what to do, how to do it. Everything, direct deposit or excuse me. Deferred comp Roths investing, just, all that kind of stuff like you, that type of information was available, but it was only when I got detailed to the old guy station, right?

Or I worked in overtime there. And I would just pick up stuff as I was there that they would just be talking. 'cause again that's all they talk about is what's in our drop account and whatever else. I wish I would've had somebody really pull me to the side early on and help guide me.

It would've made, I think things I, things are good, but things could have been, I think, even better. 'Cause I would also tell you like at that time my priorities were let's think about it. By that time I had seen all 30 major league ballparks. I was a traveling fool going to all these different places, seeing these games, seeing concerts, just I was, and then Seinfeld, they talk about the summer of George when it was like the summer of Jim for a decade.

I didn't start dating my wife until my 30th birthday. So I would say I had a lot of fun up until right then. And then it was, I'm not saying it wasn't fun, but it was. It wasn't as fun. Sorry, Lauren.

TJ: am leaving that on the episode.

Jim: I'm like pro, like different things happen. Priorities like di kids different things.

Like you can't, I just can't go to Milwaukee because I've want to see the brewers.

You're laughing because it's true.

TJ: I'm laughing because I'm gonna send her like a personalized copy of this segment of the fucking episode.

Jim: Yeah.

TJ: Like I had fun until I was 30 and then I didn't be like, holy shit, how did Jim get divorced? Be like, funny story.

Jim: It all started with TJ and.

TJ: this one episode. One of the core tenets of Keep the Promise is to build resilient and well-rounded firefighters, and you've been around the block long enough that I'm curious to see what your definition of a well-rounded firefighter would be.

Jim: Oh man, that's, a student of the game, and when I say student of the game, I'm talking can, there's so many areas of expertise that one could dive into in the fire service. Do you want to be a boat guy? Do you wanna be a rescue guy? Do you want to be hazmat glow worm guy? Like tech rescue whatever.

There's options. There's opportunities. A health and safety guy. Accreditation guy. No, don't be those. No, we don't, no don't do that. But you have options, but like the guys and gals that are good at all that stuff those are the keepers, those are the ones that you follow, like that they study fire dynamics.

They know tactics, but then they also, how to force a door and, do whatever. Like our great operators, like with this job, like there is always something you can learn and there's so much material out there. Whether you're on social media or you're still just getting into magazines, whether it's, if you're into health and wellness stuff, get a Crackle magazine.

If you're into tactics, get Fire Engineering or Firehouse Fire Rescue. Like

It's great. And I'll tell you this too, like this is something I did. I'm excited to share this with you. I think, 'cause I think you'll appreciate this. I deleted my Facebook and LinkedIn off my phone and my iPads and all that kind of stuff. All right. And he's giving me the golf clap. Thank you for that.

I still have it on my computer, but what it has done is it has allowed me to be much more present with whatever is going on. Like when you delete Facebook off your phone all of a sudden you get that feeling of boredom again, especially when you go to the bathroom. And that's where those magazines could come and play.

TJ: Nice plug for the old magazines, huh,

Jim: Yes. It's you're like me. You grew up with Maxim and Men's Health and everything else, that you had subscriptions of.

TJ: bro? I had, this is my nerdiness level, fire engineering and firehouse. Actually, if you look at that box on my screen. That is, I don't even know how many issues of fire engineering that I still had at my parents' place. And that's like a fraction of it. 'cause I had years worth of them. Some of 'em are still like in their bag.

So maxim. I was like full blown nerd into all of the fire service stuff

Jim: But if you, here's the thing. If you remove that social media from your phone. You have much more time to actually get into magazines. You have much more time to train. You have much more time to just have conversations with real life human beings. Imagine that It's crazy.

TJ: or the scary part to sit there with your own thoughts.

Jim: How dare you? And I'm not telling you to delete the stuff all together and still be there and you can catch up on whatever you need to catch up on and post whatever you need to post. But it is much more manageable and that, removing that doom scroll has been one of the best things I've done.

TJ: Yeah, a horrifying thing to do is to go into your phone and look at your screen time and actually see how much social media takes up it. It should be embarrassing. It should you in the gut and have you say, oh my God, because I did the exact same thing. I came up when Facebook was, when you had to have a.edu email address to have a Facebook account, and you could only use it on the computer because in, 2004, 2005, there were no iPhones or Androids.

There were no, none of this crazy technology we have now. And I did the same thing. I got rid of the apps on my phone, and now if I need to do something on social media, I log into it on the computer and it's boring. don't doom scroll. You just show up. You do whatever you need to do. You post whatever you have to do, reply to people, you log off.

You don't have that like dopamine attack in that

Jim: Yes. And so here's the other thing and this is my A DHD kind of brain, which like I've realized like it could be more of if you know how to hone it and use it, it truly can be a superpower. You just have to be able to understand how you tick. And really, I think more than anything in the last few years, that's what I've done is I've really spent a lot of time figuring out my why's.

Why do I act that way? Why do I do that? Why do I react, this way towards that. And it's been, it's just been really interesting.

I don't know, I lost my train of thought there, so I don't even know if that made sense.

TJ: perfect.

Jim: Cut that shit out.

TJ: we're talking about A DHD,

Jim: Oh yeah no, I was gonna tell you. Perfect. That's awesome. That makes so much sense. So I have this little upstairs I have, it's a little cube and it has different minute amounts on each side of it.

It's like a dice I guess. And you just put it on whatever long you want to focus on something and the timer starts. And so like I go, okay, I'm gonna work for 10 minutes on this project and I'm not gonna screw off and do anything else. And I'll put 10 minutes of time in. And then it's okay, you need a break, so you do five minutes of Facebook or whatever else.

Like being able to manage myself like that, even that's really micromanaging myself, but more than anything, it's keeping me on task and I'm able to, be productive and finish projects.

TJ: Jim chapter two that you are squarely in the middle of. It hasn't been easy. It hasn't been all rainbows, butterflies, sunshine, and dolphins, but what is one part of that chapter two that you are extremely proud of?

Jim: I think the feeling of gratefulness. So follow me on this, 'cause I beat myself up earlier about leaving early, not knowing what to do, floundering, and it is taken a few years, but I realized as much as all that stuff sucked and it did suck.

I can look back at a noun and go, it was all worthwhile because I now sit here in front of you as just a guy that is, dare I say, happy. I smile sometimes. And like things are going really well. And, I'm just I'm really digging to home life and I'm here a lot, I'm not on the road anywhere near as much as I used to.

And I could just, and I could be around my kids when they're still young and they still like me, 'cause I know that day is coming and it's coming probably pretty soon with the oldest, the teenager, almost teenager. Like where he's gonna be sick of dad and doesn't want anything to do with me, but for the time being and they're.

I'm still my boys, I'm still their dad. And they actually still like doing things. So like I realize it just, I have such a unique opportunity to be present, to be around them a lot more than if I was still on shift. So again, it's yeah, stuff sucked, but, and this, I get it, it is a little bit of radical acceptance if you wanted to throw a term out, but you can say yeah, that stuff sucked, but you wouldn't be where you're at right now without it.

So be grateful. And it's been good. Like again I think I told you earlier, I feel like I'm thriving, like I'm hitting my stride and I'm contributing. At a pretty high level, and I'm doing it on my own terms. And the freedom has been great. But, the, the other thing is like people like what I have to say, people actually seem like they, they care.

So it's been good. And all I've really tried to do TJ more than anything is just be, and I realize that this is my thing is just being uncomfortably vulnerable and honest and saying things that people may think but they just, they can't say it for whatever reason. And for whatever reason, I have been able to say it.

And with the platforms I have, with the shows and the columns and everything else, and the conference it's just been, it's been a hell of a ride, been a rollercoaster, but it's still a good ride. Man.

TJ: I can't think of a better place to end this. Barica, thank you so much, buddy. I appreciate you coming back on.

Jim: I'm glad you invited me back on.

TJ: Always.

Jim: We still are overdue for the spy museum.

TJ: I got a story to tell you that I'm not gonna tell you an air, but yes.

Jim: Don't tell me you already went.