089. Fatherhood, Firehouse Culture & Finding Your Place Again [Part 1]

What happens when the move you once questioned turns out to be exactly what you needed?
 

In this episode, Nick Lindsay returns to the show to talk about life after the jump from Harrisburg to Upper Darby, what family life looks like with two young kids, and how his perspective on the job has changed over time. This is a real conversation about growth, being present at home, and learning that the fire service matters... but it can’t be the only thing that defines you.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why making a department move does not have to mean starting over from scratch
• How to stay grounded when life feels like pure survival mode at home
• Why being present with your family can make you better on the job
• What it looks like to join a new firehouse without trying to be the loudest guy in the room
• One mindset shift that helps you enjoy the job without letting it consume your identity

If you’re a firefighter who is trying to balance the job, family, and big life changes without losing yourself in the process, this one’s for you.

Transcript

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Keep the Promise Podcast. Today we get the pleasure of catching you up with my good friend Nick Lindsay from Upper Derby Fire Department. He's a returning guest and the last time he was on the show, he was right in the middle of a major transition. He was moving into a new department, a new environment, and trying to figure out where his life was heading next.

Fast forward a couple years and a ton has changed in his life. In this first part of our conversation, we talk about what life has really been like lately, settling into his new role in the fire department, raising two young kids while working shift work, and learning how to stay present at home while still loving the job.

We also get into the fire culture there and what it's like joining a new department and why sometimes the best move that you can make is simply coming in as a gray man and letting your work speak for itself. So sit back and enjoy part one of our conversation with Nick Lindsay.

TJ: We can sit here and chat all day about leather. Let's get this podcast outta the way and we can Yeah. Intersperse. Sure. The, um, the leather talk in between. So, last time we chatted, you had kind of been in the middle of a very transitional period. You had been at Upper Darby for a while, but I think you didn't, you move after a bit.

You, you're just always on the go. So what's life like these days for you? 

Nick: I think the last time we talked, I was there for two years. I feel like we were probably right at that point. Uh, it's still making the adjustment for sure. The. COVID year. Getting hired during that time was brutal. And just trying to land coming from a different place, you know, that whole, that whole ordeal of getting job and really appreciating what I, what I came to was tough.

And you know, it, it's finally settled in now and I'm, I'm so happy that, that I made that move. Uh, the place is phenomenal. We have so much fun and you know, we, we did, last time I talked, we were still living in, in, in Pennsylvania and we were back there now, but we got this kinda, this wild hair to, to move to, to the beach.

I guess. We did that last year and it only lasted like, I think like eight months. We, we went to the four platoon system, 24 72. I was like, it's perfect. Like no big deal. It's what? It's two hours to work. Plenty of people do it. Nope. Turns out that puts a bean on you after a while and we said nevermind.

It's, uh, it's head on back to pa that.

TJ: So what, um, you sat there across from me back in 2023. What's different about you now in 2026?

Nick: We've, we got, we have another, uh, another, another little one running around the house. You know, that puts a lot of different things in a, in a perspective. I think I appreciate the job a lot more than what I did before. It's really grown on me. We've had such a, a large turnover in five years. The we are so young, it's not even funny.

And everybody there just wants to come to work, wants to do the right thing, wants to train, and the atmosphere is, is what I came for. And it, it's exceeding it every day.

TJ: No, that definitely makes for a fun. Shift. And uh, I know you sent me pictures of, the, the meals that you guys make, the calls that you guys run. 

Nick: Yeah. 

TJ: And even those pictures exude that energy of just people excited to be there. 

Nick: It is. It's, I really, I tell everybody to come take the test and they, no, we, our list is always so small, but hey, with we're platoon system in an urban area with no EMSS, like, I don't any hole man.

TJ: No EMS dude. That sells it. That sells it. 

Nick: Yeah. So much. No EMS 

TJ: Ugh. If only you're literally living in a utopia. We're not even just gonna tell people to apply. 'cause I, I, I don't want anybody to spoil that paradise for you. 

Nick: I'll tell you what, man, we've, we've poached some people from Virginia 'cause we are one of the rare places where if you have a accredited International Association of Firefighters Academy, you don't, you just walk on, you come in.

I just did it two weeks ago. We'll do actually the first time we did it, we'll do like a week, week long, your own gift, and you just do like a orientation academy, if you will, for a week straight. You go over everything that we carry while we carry it, operations, SOGs, all that, all that fun stuff. And it's just kind of a nice way to get people's feet wet and know what to expect versus trying to unload all of it on on the first day.

TJ: Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. 'cause very few, very few departments actually have any sort of, shall we call it lateral move? Or any sort of just walk-on type thing. 

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not too common.

TJ: If we were to define seasons of life, where are you right now? Are we talking, are you grinding? Are you growing? Are you just surviving? Or are you coasting so well that you just making tiny refinements and tiny adjustments as you go? 

Nick: Oh, no baby. We are, we are in survival mode. We got a, a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old upstairs.

They don't sleep very well at all. Now. I was up four times last night. Like we are like, coffee pot's running 24 7. We're sun as we go through kind of thing, but we're, you know, we're appreciating it because it's gonna go quick. The four year old's gonna start school, in the fall, right? For, I think she'll go two days a week for a half a day, and then in the spring it's gonna be five days a week.

That's it. She's outta the house for, for every single day, eight hours like that time's going right now. 

TJ: Is that the biggest challenge that you've faced over this last year? The kids? 

Nick: That's not even the kids, it's just a lack of sleep. I think the kids on a problem. The kids are fun. The kids are a great time.

It's just, I wish that they would, you know, if they would gimme nine to five, you know, 9:00 PM to five, 5:00 AM just let me get, let all get some hours and we'd be all right. It's the, uh, it's the every two hour wake up that makes things tough, 

TJ: dear God. Yeah, that is tough. 

Nick: Yeah. 

TJ: It's like being one of the department with EMS.

Nick: Yeah that's what I equate it to, but I'd much rather just, put my daughter back to bed or, you know, my son versus having to trench through a house, 

TJ: piss covered Floris to pick up some person. Then, you know. Yeah. An exercise since Reagan was president, 

Nick: unfortunately. Unfortunately. 

TJ: Okay. But it's challenging.

There's gotta be some wins along the way. What's one sort of quiet win? Because you're a pretty private person, so what's one thing that you kinda look back when you're lying there awake after putting your 2-year-old back to bed? You're gonna be like, at least I'm doing this. 

Nick: I think just appreciating the time that I have together, you know, that we got really fortunate at work to be able to get the fourth platoon, to not have to go to a schedule that you're away from the house so much. I feel like I'm with the kids a lot and that is not something that I feel like many people can say, especially in our line of work.

If you're in a three platoon system and you're, you know, here and gone, but you know, let's say you're grabbing overtime, you're back at work in a day and a half and you're probably not very present when you're at home because you're probably getting a beat down at work. So being able to be in a place, you know, where we're not incredibly busy.

I mean we, well, but we're not doing the unnecessary, if you will, things that allows me to really be, be present at home, I think. 

TJ: Yeah. And that's super important because at the end of the day, family is what keeps us going. 

Nick: Right. It's the only thing at the end of the day like that, like you said that that matters.

The leather working could go away tomorrow. It doesn't matter to me. I, I want my kids to have a, you know, have a good present father. 

TJ: You mean you don't feel like you need to be at the department because the department needs you all the time, 

Nick: buddy. We're just a number. The sooner you were the, the better off you are.

And that's not a negative. That's, but that's, you know, that's the truth. There's plenty of people, you'll think about when people retire, they're, the wheel keeps spinning. They could be the greatest gift to the fire department. The second they step out the door, the wheel just keeps going. 

TJ: And that's so interesting that you mentioned the retirees because I see them so often, especially on Facebook 'cause that's where they hang out and the vibe that you just get is almost like, guys let it go.

It was. It was a phenomenal part of life. But understand that you're trying to hold onto a pest that no longer exists to a world that no longer exists. And I wanna flip it into the positive, like you said it, we are just numbers. The wheel keeps on turning the like cogs in the machine and the machine always needs to be fed.

And you can look at it negatively, but it, I think the important way to look at it is almost in a liberating way that we all have a finite time and it's important to take the good with the bad and just have fun, enjoy the time with those people, enjoy the calls, enjoy the adventures, and then when it's over, just walk away and find a new adventure.

Nick: Yeah. I think it's one of the first things I tell new guys that you know. Really take time for people that you work with. If you have a good crew, you have good guys, take it in. Because, you know, in next year, it very well could change, promote, people retire. You have to try to, you know, try and stay present and just enjoy, enjoy what you have.

It's only, you know, nobody knows what's gonna go, what, what's gonna happen tomorrow. 

We bring in retirees every year, and I love that we do this, we give 'em a, um, a brunch every year after the holidays. I, I organize it all, all the retirees come in, meet the new guys, and just to, say, thanks.

We're, we're a young local. There's a lot that went on before many of us even stepped foot in the door there that they paved the way for, but it also gives them a chance to just come back in the firehouse like, wow, this is really cool. They can get, tell the old stories and meet the new people and just, give him a little bit of, uh, nostalgia. You know, walking in, you get the, smell the fire out. It's like, yeah, this was, this was a really good time. I really enjoyed that I'm here or was here and you know, I don't have to worry about it anymore, kind of thing. 

TJ: You're like, that fucking pipe's still leaking.

I've been going for 15 years. What the shit.

Nick: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. 

TJ: Never changes. Just different phases, different assets on seats. 

Nick: I'll tell you what. Yep. Change the patches all the same.

TJ: Perfect transition because you went from Harrisburg to Upper Darby and you change the patch on your shoulder. There's some things that are similar, but what differences and what similarities surprise you the most when you got there? 

Nick: Honestly, they're very, very similar. Obviously Harrisburg is much older union, much older department.

Upper RB celebrating our 50th as a local this year. So that comes with, growing pains. You think about some of the guys that first started, they were in a single man house. They were just by themselves. So when we started adding staffing, you could hear from the other guys. Like, it was like they wouldn't necessarily participate in the meals.

They would bring their own stuff, but they didn't know anything else for, 15, 20 years. It was just them. So when you start adding extra people into the mix, they're kind of like, nah, this doesn't make any sense to me. Like, I don't, I'm good, I'll just take care of myself, kind of deal. But now that it's, you know, we have the staffing that we do, that's been the total norm.

Like everyone's together for the meals. Three o'clock coffee every day, kind of meet back up with each other, train a little bit more. Like that was, that was a tough thing coming in and COVID because everybody just went their own separate ways because, you know, I don't want to catch spicy flu from anyone.

And that was probably the hardest for me. And then coming out of that, like I said, after a couple years, I was finding like, wow, this was, this was a good move. I'm glad I'm here. I'm glad I made that. I'm glad I made that move. But like, operationally, they're identical.

TJ: Did it ever seem like you had to prove yourself again to the guys who had been there for a while? 

Nick: No, I'm gonna think, prove myself because, Telegraph telephone, tele farm, and they had all the, the data they needed on me. Truthfully, it was more so I didn't want to let the people in Harrisburg that put their neck out and said, yeah, he's good to go.

Uh, you know, I didn't wanna let them down. More so than anything else. Right? 

TJ: Yeah. 

Nick: Because that doesn't only affect me. It'll affect them. 

TJ: Yeah. You don't wanna piss off Yakin. 

Nick: Yes, absolutely. No. We'll, 

TJ: he'll make 

Nick: Throw a knife at me. 

TJ: I was gonna say, he'll make you a spicy meal. 

Nick: Yeah. Or 

TJ: he'll hit you with a, why don't I make fun of him?

For a lot of the Lord of the Ring stuff, I'm like, what are you gonna do? Send Frodo after me. Ooh, 

Nick: Hey guy, I can't knock him. Good trilogy, good movies. 

TJ: I love that. But okay. My super controversial opinion, because I never paid attention to Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter, but they all just get mixed together in my mind.

Same thing, like same group of three kids going on adventures with this old white dude with a beard who tells him sort of what to do. There's some magic here and there. There's some weirdness going on. Some like super evil figure. I'm like, I don't know. When did Frodo go to Hogwarts? And people just fucking short circuit when I say that shit.

Nick: Yeah, there's, yeah, there's a lot of similarities. I can't, I can't, I can't knock you there.

TJ: Okay. What um, I mean, we have a lot of questions about the move and everything, but it's, I don't wanna belabor it because I think it's important to realize for those people who are considering a move, that it can be simple, it can be painless, right? If you have a good crew back at your old department who talks to your new department and says, this guy's solid, because you've proven yourself there, then all you have to do is just continue being you being who you are.

So I think. I would say, and maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but it was the right call, wasn't it? 

Nick: Yeah, absolutely. You know, you just come in as the gray man, nobody, and this goes, no, nobody cares how, you know, the, the place where you did it before did things like, just relax, do what you know is right.

Take your time and there'll be opportunities. If you see that there are holes you can put it out there like, Hey, back here, we did this and it worked out for us. This is why. And they're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Like that's actually not a bad idea kind of thing. But to walk in the first day and start doing those things, I'd, I'd probably caution against that.

TJ: Uh, we had a guy at the volley house who, um, and you know, it's the most volley house drama episode ever. This dude came in and I think he was in a department in Northern Virginia. And, uh. Made it a point to go through every piece of apparatus, take the axis and literally just polish the paint off the ax heads because it, you know, it's a, the yellow fiberglass handle axis with the red paint up to a certain point in the head, and it was pandemonium because now you have the old timer saying, we've always done it this way.

You have this guy saying, this is how my department does it. And it's like an identity crisis of what it is that we're going to do. And some of us in the periphery looking around like, are we really fucking over this right now? Like, we're making this a huge deal. 

Nick: Yeah. But I Did you just, uh, go ahead, sorry.

TJ: Well, what I was gonna say is I think the point is that don't rock the boat too much, especially over something as tiny Yeah. 

Nick: Yeah, if it, if they were painted red, it's fine. Clean up. Just make sure it looks the same way that, that it was when it came off kind of thing. Like you said, it's, there's nothing to it.

It's paint. Like, just paint it, pay back to what it was. Clean it up. It's fine. It's,

TJ: I also think that we just get into some of the, like minutiae of things so much and it's like being able to take a step back and say like, this is ridiculous. I want no part of this shit. 

Nick: Yeah, the rabbit holes go deep and they go deep real quick and sometimes people get stuck down there and you have to try to do your best to, to pull 'em out of it.

You're like, like you said it doesn't really matter. Not gonna affect how things go on a fire ground when they're fine. Come back up, it'll be okay. 

TJ: I went to school for engineering and some of these engineering nerds and scientists that I hung out with would be appalled at the level of detail that we go into.

Like the, the argument for stripping the accent was, it's going to get stuck when you're actually trying to vent a roof or do anything with the head. A thin layer of paint. Like, okay, you're technically correct that you're adding some friction to it, but is this really the hill that we're gonna die on?

Is this really where we're gonna put our energy? Like, oh God. 

Nick: Yeah. I mean, you know, to some, they, they, you know, they get honed in on it. It's like a bloodhound and they can't let it go once they got their teeth so into it. It, but you kinda gotta slap a little bit. Like let's get this, uh, this worldview of 'em back up.

TJ: Yeah, maybe it's that, that hyper fixation that that fire service autism that we all kind of joke about. 

Nick: Oh, without a doubt. We all suffer from it.

TJ: Well, it's what allows us to really hyper fixate on one thing and be good at it, such as 

Nick: leather 

TJ: working. Tell 

Nick: me about Yeah. Some days. Yeah, so I bought that book of yours and I went down the rabbit hole. You know, I, I made the, my goal was to just try to make enough to get back what I put into all the tools and all that good stuff.

And there's probably four or five fronts out there that I first started traditional, like cutting the numbers out, cutting the shields out. And I think by the fifth one I said to myself, this is the worst idea I've ever had in my life. It's not fun, I don't enjoy it, but I saw. How there were other options of making them.

And I was like, I think I wanna learn how to carve the leather, how to tool it, give it some life that way. And after the first couple of them, I realized that was kind of the, the rabbit hole I wanted, I wanted to dip down into, and we, we canonball into that, to be honest. 

TJ: No doubt about that. I remember you started off and you sent me a couple of the pictures of the, um, of the first shields you made along with a phenomenal review.

And next thing I know, Nick's leather work and here we are. 

Nick: Yeah. Like I, you pause 

TJ: orders. 

Nick: Yeah. We're loaded up. And I owe a lot of that to the, the guys that I work with. I saw some of the things that I was doing. They're like, Hey, I want one. And it just kept going and going. And it hasn't stopped.

I, on a month or two basis, there's guys that worked that are reaching out to, to get one or get another one. And I, I owe a huge debt to them for their, I mean, really they're ones that started this whole thing out, to be honest, you know, if it wasn't for them, them wanting to, to get something from one of their own guys, I'm, you know, doing the volume that I am.

TJ: And that speaks about the sort of like family aspect of the fire service because a lot of people, I think a lot more people will buy a custom shield or a radio strap or whatever at leather to gift. I know both you. Mm-hmm. And I have made plenty of. Shields and whatnot for academy graduations, for promotions, for transfers.

It's not so much people that are like, oh, I want this for myself, but they're like, oh, this would be an awesome gift. And that almost feels better that somebody looks at your work and says, I want my name to be attached to that awesome gift when I give it to somebody and show them that I care about them.

Nick: Yeah. It's neat to see and it, there's a double-edged sword at the same time. I really love getting the photos of them absolutely cooked. Uh, but knowing that the Lin display box as well is kind of nice, 

TJ: yeah. You don't want some pristine helmet shield. You want something that's smoked up and charred and has that like little bit of a, that curve to it after it takes some heat. 

Nick: Yep, yep. And it's, it's, it's nice to see that the product stands up like I thought it would, if you will. Uh, certainly I did test them on grills beforehand to see how would, how well the paint would hold up and how well the sheen would hold up before, before I sent 'em out.

But, you know, you never know what, what some of these guys are getting into. So it's nice to get those photos and know that it's same as it should. 

TJ: I actually used it in my mom's oven and uh, that was a horrible idea. Like, I, I threw it in there and broil for a few minutes and it stank up the whole house.

She was furious. 

Nick: Oh yeah. I ruined a grill. Thankfully. It was on the way out anyways. But

TJ: at what point did you look at yourself and go, holy shit, this is actually becoming something, this is more than a hobby. This is a business. 

Nick: I need this one for one of the guys at work, he's like, I just kind of want this, like, truck at the top, 37 in the middle, and he is like, I want like a street sign at the bottom.

I was like, okay. Like I can probably do that, but then I'm walking around the firehouse and there's a banner. From the original, uh, volunteer company was there from like 1910, and it had a keystone. And I was like, oh, you know what, that'd be pretty cool if I like worked it in. And I didn't say anything to him.

I just put it on there and I gave it to him. He is like, this is, this is the coolest thing ever. Like, we're bringing back the keystone. I was like, yeah, it was on the original firehouse. Like, it's a really neat piece. And after that it just, it, I, it that's the one I feel like that started really having this thing roll, roll down the hill in a, in a good way.

And like we talked about before, you know, I'm looking at my book and there's, I'm 40 deep and I was like, this is okay. This is something, and we gotta take a pause here because I, I can't, I can't do anymore at the moment.

TJ: How are you taking orders right now? You're talking about a book where you have all your orders? 

Nick: Yeah, my book is just, uh, uh, you're gonna, you're gonna. Just dislike me for this. It's just a, it's just a paper book that I have all, everything written down on right now that I get messages through and I work out through, through uh, designing through Photoshop and through, um, procreate and just get printed out and have a stack that'll looking add over here of, of ones that, that have to get carved so they've got all the details on it, where it's going, who's it for, colorways that whole nine yards.

And I try to get 'em done in batches of like three to five. Sometimes more if I'm doing a group of, if I have a group of whites, white fronts, that might be, a, if I know that another one's coming in that's gonna be white, that might get grouped into that one and actually get done quicker just because I'm doing a group of that same color.

It's just a quicker turnaround process sometimes. So that's really, that's the only way I'm tracking it currently. 

TJ: Dude, you gotta keep that book because in a few years you can, that'll be your, your shadow box piece you can look at and be like, yeah, dude. 

Nick: That's when the, I was like, oh, you, you're numbering 'em, right?

And I said, no, honestly, it hasn't even crossed my mind to, to number 'em. Should I? Probably. But really when we get to the, when I get to that finish line point, I'm just glad that I can get it boxed up and sent out and just, all right. That one's done. Onto the next, 

TJ: yeah. By this point he probably forgot what number is which, 

Nick: what's that?

TJ: I said by this point he probably forgot which shield is which number. 

Nick: Oh, without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know. There's tons that have you made it to Instagram that just get, I just forget about it. Uhhuh. And it just gets boxed and sent because I want, I want it outta my hands. ' cause there's, you know, there's eight hours into, to some of these, not if not more.

And the quicker it gets to them, the, the less chance of it. Getting messed up in, in my shop.

TJ: It's funny you mentioned Photoshop and procreate and all these, all these visual aids and, and computer aids. Because I think when I started, I obviously, you know, like we all do, we don't have the money or the skill for some of these pieces of software.

I had the tracing paper, that Velon paper. Yep. And I made my first design by literally folding a sheet of paper in half, carving part of the crown and then, retracing it. So it was nice and symmetric because I didn't have access to the software. And then when it came to text, I would bring it up in a Word document on my computer and take the tracing paper and clip it to my screen and lightly trace it with, with a pencil so I could get the, um, the actual text correctly and see how it would look.

And, uh. As much as it sucked because it took forever to get a design finalized. Looking back on it, it's like, that was cool, man. That was, you know, 2014 my apartment, just trying to figure out what the fuck I was doing. It was pretty awesome. 

Nick: Yeah. And it's, you know, the, the A's are so nice 'cause you're able to make things, even especially with procreate, having that, uh, the ability to split the, split the screen and when you're drawing on one side, it's drawn on the other one for you.

Like, that's huge. And even still, like if I, you know, I use certain banners, but I just typically use them as like a, a general guideline because they don't always fit well. But I just need a visual aid and there's times when I'll even I'll, I've, I've drawn 'em straight on the leather, like just freehand it we're gonna figure this out here are, is it perfect?

No. But, you're getting that a really nice handmade product that really is, you know, custom to what you wanted on there.

TJ: What's been harder for you? Building that skill of leatherwork, of, basically like project management from beginning to end or actually building that customer base because now you're getting into business territory, into acquisition, into scaling, into all those things that almost seeing, I,

Nick: I mean the skill portion,

like if you get your skills down and you're putting out a quality product, customer base will then come. If that kind of, that makes sense. And like at this point, like I said, I had to close orders because there's just too many of them. And that hasn't been for me, marketing, that's just been from word of mouth of just knowing like what we can do on small, you know.

Five and a half by piece of leather.

TJ: It's a tiny canvas for sure.

So you do leather work. We know firefighters who are into woodworking, into, there's a guy that I know that makes fishing lures. And do you think that the fire service and like the fire service population as a whole is more wired for craftsmanship, for working, for having a unique artistic outlet?

Nick: I think maybe, I mean, not everybody. There's plenty of people that I've talked to that are like, you don't want want me to draw a stick fig? But maybe they just haven't found that medium that really agrees with how, you know, their, their brain works around their hands work. Uh, I think we enjoy being tactile and building things from the ground up.

And I could definitely see, I, I, you know, I'm not surprised that people are good in the firehouse with, woodworking or cabinetry even like some of these guys turn into in, in the trades like electrical, they run their wires and you see how diligent they are and how well they feed all that in it.

Art in its own, if you will, like being able to put some of those things and then it's clean work. And I, I think there's just this, you get to have to find kind of what, what medium suits you. I don't doubt by any stretch of imagination when someone were to find that in our line of work, that excel at it.

TJ: Is it therapeutic for you? Sitting at the shop and carving, cutting, stamping, painting? 

Nick: Uh, I, I guess, I mean, I've never been to therapy, so I don't know exactly what that would be like, but to be able to just find up being quiet some days, you know, I'm not always listening to music.

I'm always listening to a, a TV show. Some days it's just coming down and it's just nice to just, you know, have, have si and i, I guess when you, you come down, I've been down here, you know, eight, nine o'clock at night and suddenly I'm blinking at 1:00 AM and I'm like, oh, shoot. Like that, that went by in a flash.

But I guess being able to shut up from some of the other and do the carving and stuff like that would definitely constitute a form of therapy.