092. Consistently Interested In Life [Part 2]

You do not have to make the fire service your whole personality to be great at the job. In Part 2, Joff Fierro explores rookie culture, fitness standards, leadership, hobbies, and mental health. This one hits on a truth a lot of firefighters need to hear: you can push people to be better without humiliating them, and having a life outside the job might be one of the best things you can do for your crew and your future.

What You’ll Learn:

• How to coach younger firefighters without shame or humiliation
• Why fitness, crew continuity, and training all feed each other
• What good leadership looks like when a rookie is struggling
• Why hobbies outside the firehouse matter more than most firefighters admit
• One hard truth about PTSD: distractions help, but they do not heal the wound

If you’re a firefighter who wants to lead better, train harder, and build a life outside the job without losing your edge, this one’s for you.

Transcript

Joff: There's good, there is good, hardworking men and women out there that just want to do the job and go home and do it well, and then there's everybody else.

TJ: All right, so we're kind of talking about the culture of the fire service and um, that's one of the questions that I had here as it relates to fitness. You've been around for a bit now, you're up there in that, in that seniority, you're not Mr, you know, salty 26 year guy, but you've been around the block a time or 50 type thing.

From your perspective, what have you seen in terms of the evolution of firefighter fitness? Has it gotten better? Are we still stuck in the same old routines? Are we on a downward spiral? Where are we sitting there?

Joff: That's a tough one, man. I, I had a lot more insight on this when I was out there roving when we talked last and roving is, what do you guys call it? Rovers?

TJ: Uh, floats

Joff: Floats

TJ: because you float from one station to the other. Well, I mean, that's what we do. I, somebody in Louisiana's probably gonna come and be like, that's not what we fucking call, and it's like. Okay, well, we call ours rookies. You guys call them booters and other people call 'em probationers. So you basically did not have a home.

You are homeless.

Joff: Yeah. I was getting set to good stations. Um, and you know, every once in a while I was getting sent to flow stations, which were still good 'cause there's people at flow stations that wanted to work and there's people that didn't. Um, but for the most part, always, I was getting sent to good stations with guys that wanted to work, that wanted to train, wanted to that comradery. Eat good food on good calls, at night hopefully. And you see it a lot out there. And then when you get to a spot, you don't have your finger on the pulse of the city as much as you used to. So when like one of our guys is out, we'll get a rover for the day, like a backseat BLS guy or a medic. Um, and generally it's, it's all the same questions. How's mama? How are the kids? Where have you been? Where have they been spending you like getting any good fires lately? The exact same questions and it's always funny, but like, um, getting some of these younger guys that come through here, and by younger I mean like a couple years on the job, these are full grown men and women. it's, it's always interesting to, to see like when you get an like an older a LS captain on the job that's been on for 20 years and wants to come in and, Hey, you guys doing a skills course today? You guys getting in turnouts and training and we're like. Fuck yeah, dude. And he's like, let's get it. And then you get like that guy who's doing his, uh, his best three years, who, you know, he's, he's working a lot. Um, and they, kind of come in and they're like, dude, I'm, licking him right now. And I'm, I've got, I'm at 40%. I got 40% today. And we're like, we got you brother. Like, as long as you got a good attitude, you wanna run calls and you work hard on a fire, we'll take care of you. That's how, that's how it should be, right? Um, and then you got guys that come in and are just kind of mope around the station sometimes. And this is few and far between, I should say. We have, I have not, we haven't had issues like this which I love. Um, but every once in a while, dude, there's, there's one of those people that just of doesn't get it. And you kinda ask a couple questions and they don't have the right answers. And you're like, all right, well, okay, have fun. see you in another year or so maybe. Um, we, uh, we went down to the academy the other day on a Sunday to train, um, do a, like an academy skills course, which depending on who you ask, is a harder skills course or an easier skills course depending on what station you go to.

'cause some stations around Phoenix have very hard skills courses comparatively to the academy skills course, which is cut and dry. Same thing every time. Um, and we got a guy that roved in and he wasn't having the best morning, but he's the newer guy on the job, younger guy on the job. And I'm like, Hey man, like, coat off.

Take your bottle off. Like, keep your bunkers on. Um, keep, you know, keep your helmet on and your, your gloves. Like, let's keep working until you can't. And it, it got, it, got a little bit farther into it and he's like, dude, and you know, you know how it is. Like I did the same thing. guys. I just, I didn't sleep good last night.

I didn't eat well this morning. And excuses are like yls, right? Everybody's got one. No one wants to see it. Um, and he gets to the point where he's like, I'm hurting. I'm like, all right, captain. And I tell him to go sit down over in the corner, over in the shade, drink some water. We'll catch up after we're done. Um, and as we're finishing, uh, he starts walking up I walk up to him and I go, man, when the skipper asks you what happened, don't fucking make an excuse. I don't care that you didn't eat well this morning. I don't care that you didn't sleep well last night. You show up for you in the morning and you show up for us. That is how that works. Nobody wants to hear why you weren't ready to do this today. And I'm sorry those things happened. But you're here for 24 hours, dude. We need you to work. You're the youngest guy on the job. You're gonna be working your but to the ground on a fire. Like, that's just how it is. So when he asks you don't make an excuse, you just look him in the eye. You say, sir, I'm sorry. It won't happen again, and I will try harder next time I'm at your station and thanks for having me. And he said, oh, absolutely dude, I'm, I'm so sorry. I'm like, don't apologize. It, it fucking happens. It's happened to all of us. For me to sit there and be like, oh dude, this fucking guy, on act like it's never happened to. Every single person on this truck is an asinine thing to say

TJ: I think.

Joff: or act like. You know what I mean? Like if it, now, if he keeps coming back and it keeps happening and you're like, Hey man, Then it's an issue, but until then, l let's.

TJ: That leads into the next question that I had because we've talked a lot about shame as a motivator, quote unquote, and basically how it doesn't work. So given that story and everything else that you've experienced, everything that you've done in your career, and especially as a CrossFit coach, what have you learned?

What are the best ways to motivate people without shaming them? We think that if I come to you and I say, you suck, you're a shitbag. You need to work harder by crushing you somehow, miraculously, you're gonna want to stand up taller and prove me wrong. In reality, that doesn't work because I just crush you.

And you're probably like, fuck this guy. I don't wanna talk to him ever again.

Tell me, let's, let's coach somebody without humiliating them. How do we go about that?

Joff: So to, to go back to that story, we, the skills course that we did was advanced, right? was, it was hard and it was warm out that

TJ: What does that entail?

Joff: there's, there's an event in a skills course, right? An event is something that you do. So like dragging a tire, um, and raising a ladder up, doing a pike pole prop, cutting lines with a pike pole prop, an, doing an attic crawl, going upstairs. Um, so each one of those things is an event, and that's, you pretty much just go from event to event. What we did that day was we dragged the tire to each event. So you drag the tire to the stairs, you go up the stairs, you drag the tire over to the pipe hole prop. You do the pipe hole prop, it starts to wear on you pretty quick.

So it was a, it was a harder skills course that is not normal. Um, it's something that you should be able to do, but it's uh,

TJ: Uh,

Joff: advanced, right? So for a

TJ: right. So

Joff: rubs around who goes to stations that either train or don't, and has a level of inconsistency there, to jump right into that is a little more challenging right Now, should you be able to do that? Absolutely. do I expect you to perform at the level that we do because we do this as often as we do? Yes and no. Um, now do I think that people

TJ: I think.

Joff: pushed? To excel in this level of fitness while wearing turnouts? You should be able to find, I don't necessarily think this has to happen on the job, but you do have to figure it out at some point, and I don't know if who's taking their turnouts home to figure this out, off the job, but you have to figure out where your, your threshold is and how you can get past that so that your threshold goes up and then you continue to get better.

Right. You have to do that through rigorous, really sucky training sometimes. So we, if it's a new person on the truck, we are going to push you. We are going to make you work till you don't want to anymore, simply because you have to excel to that level. That we, we put ourselves at, right? Like we have prided our stations for being physically fit and exceeding on fires and being good firemen and treating people right? And if you're not meeting that standard, we're going to help you get there. Um, now if you fail a couple times,

TJ: A couple times.

Joff: I don't think you should be berated for that. Like I said, every single person on that truck has been in that guy's shoes, right? been there. Have I been, have I gotten an earful before from, know, dragging a little bit of ass on the fire ground or in a skills course? Absolutely. But know what, the one thing that people hate unless you're into this, is just, which would be weird, is getting yelled at. And I don't mean like yelling, yelling, I mean being sternly talked to that your level. Is not meeting the standard, which I know how we love that word. Um, and that, that's a conversation that needs to be had. But you need to learn from those things. It doesn't need to be, man, you stuck. Like, figure it the fuck out. And it some, some people, that's their way of like getting people to do better. But like my, I, like my way better. You know what I

TJ: Like Tyler better. You know what I mean? Hey man,

Joff: hear excuses.

TJ: don't wanna hear

Joff: next time. That's all. Okay. Show up for us. Show up for you. Now, if I walked up to that guy and was like, Hey man, you stuck. Like, are you kidding me? Like, you didn't, you didn't want to do this this morning. You just decided not to show up to work today. Like ready to go. Like, what the fuck's wrong with you? Do you think that guy's ever gonna want to come back to my station and work with us? No, absolutely not. And I want people to come work with us. I want people, good people to come, want to work here, does everybody else on the

TJ: everybody else.

Joff: Um, so to, I guess to answer the question is no, I don't think berating and belittling people is the way to go about it. But at some point, if you are not the standard, a conversation has to be had as to why you can fix it.

And if it's not a fixable thing, then I think that then that conversation has to be had. And those are not fun conversations.

TJ: I just lost my entire train of thought.

Joff: Sorry.

TJ: No, that was very well put. That was very Well, let me, let me write a note so I can go back and edit this part out because you literally covered everything that I wanted to ask about treating rookies and humiliating people. You've always been super outspoken about not eating or young and not treating our rookies like shit.

And you pissed off a lot of people. The first conversation that we had when he basically said The Buddha is the most tired, the busiest guy or gal on our shift. And that person should be eating first and should not be staying up late doing menial chores. And dude. Like we mentioned, the internet just exploded and people were talking about how they got treated like shit and therefore everybody had to do it.

And so given that, put yourself in the role of a company officer, which I guess for you that first step would be a captain. Correct?

Joff: Yeah. Uh, Lieutenant,

TJ: I know, do you guys have lieutenants or

Joff: We have captains, captains, engineers

TJ: what I'm saying.

Joff: the back seat.

TJ: Yeah. 'cause for us it was you. You have the first step as a company officer was lieutenant anyway, like put yourself in that first line officer situation.

You want to develop your rookies better if you want to make them better firefighters. In the time that they're with you, what are your top. Three to five things that you can start doing with them immediately to develop them into better people.

Joff: I think the top three easy ones are training, um, making sure they're proficient in their skills so that when it comes to it, they can fall back on it. Um, crew continuity would be a close second if not the first, because if you can't have a tight crew, you can't have that cohesion. and just to, I don't know, kind of bullshit on this one real quick.

Uh, you have guys that rove in, guys and girls that rove in and they just fit in instantly, right? So it's one of those things like, know, when somebody doesn't fit in, they, they don't talk, they hang out in the room all day, that stuff. We want to teach the newer generation that this is the culture we want.

That crew continuity needs to be there. We have to have cohesion. We have to have camaraderie. If we don't have that, we don't have a department. the best part of coming to work is showing up and hanging out with my best friends all, all day long. That's it. That's what I get to do. This isn't a job, dude.

You know what I mean?

TJ: I mean,

Joff: a career of hanging out with your buds all day long, fighting fires, picking up memaw, doing something hard every once in a

TJ: it's hard everyone

Joff: that, dude, it's you show up for 24 hours and go home and you should be able to teach this younger generation that. Um, and third, which, you know, I think these kind of all align together is fitness. Your physical fitness heavily depends on your level of training and or your level of training heavily

TJ: level of training heavily.

Joff: should say. Um, and plays into continuity as well. Like, because if you're not out there working out with us and training with us, then sweating and putting in that equity, what are you doing? What, like, like I said, man, when we got, when we have guys and girls that show up and they're like, man, I'm at 50% today. Cool brother, we'll take care of you. We get it. But it can't be every shift. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Cannot be every shift. There has to be some give and take there. so when you got a younger guy, they either show up and they're a fucking stud or somewhere in between. And it's our job to train them to turn into a stud because they're on probation for nine months and after that, welcome to the shark take. Those are my three.

TJ: I love it. I love it. Especially having fitness as that pillar that supports everything else, because yeah, without it, with you, you don't have the the endurance to carry out those skills and love it or hate it. People are gonna look at you and be like. That's gonna be the first person to say I can't, which is a death sentence in the fire service,

Joff: Hundred percent.

TJ: we are getting to the part that I am the most excited about because firefighters, we tend to make the job our entire identity. I'm talking department t-shirts from all other departments and you go buff out when you visit different places and you just hang out with your boys and you talk about fire stories and you know, you see the ladder truck rolling down the street and you jump out there screaming, go get him brothers.

And I want to talk about challenging that notion that we have to make it our whole identity because as I alluded to in the beginning. You partake in some hobbies that are diametrically op, like opposed of what a firefighter normally does, right? You expect? I remember Mo, it was almost like a rite of passage.

Like the the guys that I graduated the academy with, they would do a handful of things within the first year. One, they'd buy an engagement ring for the girl that they'd been dating for a couple months. Two, they would buy an expensive ass truck and the next like fork in the road, like frost would say they either got into lawn care or hunting or fishing or smoking meats.

Joff: That's pretty much it.

TJ: You, well, not for you, my friend, because you got into nerd shit. Tell me about magic the gathering.

Joff: I've,

TJ: How,

Joff: I've been in

TJ: how, how did it become your thing?

Joff: Um, uh, I, it's that A DHD brain, you know. it like, it's just funny. I think my wife gets so fucking fed up with me. She's just like, can, can we not find another niche hobby that you focused on for another two years? Um, hopefully this won't last. I think it will. 'cause I really enjoy this game a lot.

Um, so

TJ: Didn't you remodel your garage or something?

Joff: well, we built a studio to stream magic. The gathering in my buddy's garage, we went

TJ: Okay. Okay. So it's not your place.

Joff: to a hundred.

TJ: No.

Joff: Just, there's no way we're gonna build that in my house. My wife would've had a fucking heyday with that one. are you, fuck it. Are you serious? Absolutely not. Go build it outside. She's like, go, go to a car shop or something. Um, uh, yeah, dude. Okay, so back in like, 2001, 2002, uh. I, my cousin me how to play Magic, the Gathering. Um, he started getting into it when it got really big. I think it started around like 1993. Um, and then like all things started picking up. Uh, but he taught me how to play. And back then the, the form, so there's a bunch of different formats, right? There's commander, there's standard, there's premodern, there's Popper, there's, uh, God, there's, there's a, there's a bunch of different formats. Um, the biggest one right now is commander, and then I think standard, depending on who you ask, but Commander is a hundred card format, and I actually have one right here. you have one card your deck is based around this card. Um, basically you have a manna bath. says, these are the kinds of cards that you can play in this deck. So this one would be swamps, forests and islands, and then there's one generic on top of that. the only kinds of cards that can go in my deck are swamp cards, forest cards, and islands, right?

And so you all start with 40 life you draw seven cards and then you play lands, and that's basically your currency to be able to cast spells and creatures. Um, and then from there you attack people. You cast spells that take cards away or bring cards back or this, that and the other thing. There is a multitude of different mechanics and crazy shit that goes into this game. my favorite part about it with a lot of things that I find hobbies in is that I can customize it specifically to the way that I want it. Like to a very finite tee. I'm like, oh, this is the goofiest, weirdest looking card I've ever seen. I need to put this in my deck. it might not work very well, but it's funny 'cause I think it's, it reminds me of a meme or something.

I don't know shit like that. But you win games and you lose games. Um, you generally play in pods of four and then, so like, you're not just attacking one person the entire time with standard, it's just two people fighting each other with a 60 card deck. So everything, depending on your, uh, what, um, format you're playing the card, uh, value the card quantity can lessen or grow. but yeah, dude, there is a huge band around it. Um, and then I think like two years ago, my buddy Chris got into it at work on the job. Because he worked with, uh, how he describes the nerd of nerds. Um, he's a, a civilian medic on one of their rescues, and he's like my brother in Christ. This guy has a door in his library that opens to Elvis, and I don't know if you know what that means.

He speaks to it in a, a fake made up language from Lord of the Rings and the door opens

TJ: Yeah, that's, uh, that's pretty nerdy.

Joff: tier nerdom. I think it's rad. I think that's fucking coolish shit. I dunno how the hell you figured that out. he's like, dude, I started playing magic and I was like, oh, I used to play magic. I, let's play magic. Ugh. So just like bunch of fucking knuckle dragers dude. Um, so I'm like, dude, I'll start getting a deck.

I'll get my decks together. Um, I started buying cards and playing and then. Because I started doing that on Instagram. I started finding like, magic, the gathering pages, and I was like, I, I, I got in touch with a good buddy that, um, runs a very well-known page. He's one of the top creators in the, uh, in the format right now. he was like, dude, just, just do it. I've seen your video like, like just make a page. And I was like, nah, dude. I got like three other pages that I'm figuring out right now. Like, he's like, just do it. And I was like, all right, fuck it. Why not? And then so I started doing it, my wife, like, another, another page.

I'm like, yeah, sorry. Um, but dude, it has been a, it has been a blast. And I, I come into work, dude. It doesn't, it doesn't really matter what you do on this job. If it's goofy to somebody else, you are gonna get grilled for it. Grilled with a capital G dude. Um, and it's usually outta love. If it's not outta love, you can tell pretty quickly.

And then you're just like, ah, fuck that guy. He's weird. Um, dude, I, I love it. The community is a lot of fun. like any other community. You got a lot of naysayers, but then you got a, a really good gathering, no pun intended, of people that do, they just wanna get together with their friends play some games and hang out.

And the, the thing goes, it's not about the magic, it's about the gathering. It's like this, this goofy, corny saying, the magic is the gathering, right? Hanging out with your friends, talking shit, playing cards. It's, it's like getting together with the boys on Friday and playing poker, right? Same thing. Only I've got Val, the balanced scale, and he's a dragon. He's a four four and he does zombie recursion. You know what I mean? So it's a little different.

TJ: Not at all. I have no idea what you mean. And that's one of the most fascinating things is I'll try to ingest the stuff that he put out there and I'm like, okay, I need to learn a new language. And there are rules. And then you put the cards down and then you flip 'em 90 degrees. And then at some point somebody's about to throw hands and counter spell hands.

And I just, every time that I ask you, I'm like, did you win? You're like, no, I fucking got humbled, bro. But it sounds fascinating and I'm not like, I just, I don't understand it. And I know myself and I know my mind operates the same way as you do that, if I start researching into it and figuring out the different connections, I'm gonna end up like fucking Charlie.

And it's always sunny in Philadelphia. That meme, we've all seen like bloodshot eyes with a corkboard with the red string and everything. Makes sense. And my family and loved ones are gonna be looking at me like. What the fuck happened to you? I'm like, new obsession. So that's out of health. I'm like, Nope, nope, nope.

I, I'm barely kicking leather work out of the picture. I don't need another new obsession. But it's fascinating. And it is, it's crazy. Just 'cause the way you described it, it makes sense. But I know when I look at your videos, I'm gonna be like, fuck, this is not as simple. Where do you find the rules? Like does somebody, does like the magic gatherer come up with them and everybody listens?

Or is it one of those things like when you used to play board games growing up, that your group of friends had their own rules and if you talk to somebody else down the street, they had totally different rules. Like, what the fuck, how, how do you learn? Where do you start?

Joff: It's, it's literally taught to you, dude, and it depends, hopefully the right person is teaching you because if you learn the wrong way, it takes a a minute to. Learn the right way. Like when I got into it, I found a couple of my friends that were like, yo, did you start playing Magic The Gathering? And I was like, yeah.

And they're like, dude, we play Magic The Gathering. I was like, no way. So I'd go play with them. dude, you have some people that are just idiots, ance when it comes to stuff like this. Like they're like, oh, rule C3, 2.4 a F five states, that first three can only be cast at this speed. And you're like, oh, okay.

No, that makes sense. I was playing that all wrong. And then every once in a while you'll correct somebody and vice versa. And you just kind of figure it out as you go. Like you have to have a basic understanding of like how things work. Um, but. There's, there's a guy that, his entire page is rule basis on how, like certain very, like, not, not niche or very niche rules work. it's kind of an all encompassing thing. And he talks to himself kinda like I do in my videos, and he's like, oh, I'm gonna play this card. He goes, you actually can't do that because CR 1 0 3 4 says you can do this at this speed and this type, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, it's a very, very useful page because you're like, oh, I didn't know that. then this new rule is unlocked. And then your brain goes, well, I can do that in one of my decks, that's gonna screw everybody up. That's gonna be so much, so much fun.

TJ: Let's go back to how this all ties into the fire service. Why do you think we sometimes struggle to have hobbies that are not directly related to the job? Speaking from experience because Right. What was my hobby? I'm gonna do leather work so I can make helmet, shields and radio straps, right? I didn't start trying to make wallets or something unrelated.

I'm like, cool Shields, radio straps. Keep the promise. It started as like, let's have a firefighter podcast and let's talk about firefighter fitness. Why is it so hard to us to avoid, to like pull away from that almost magnetic field and find other unrelated shit?

Joff: Let's man, this job will, as much as it gives us. Benefits pay, uh, a awesome work schedule. Um, brotherhood Fitness. It, it also takes more, right? Our sleep, our time, our energy, mental health, PTSD, of it. It, it aches in, it aches in, it takes, and the department asks for more and it's because they need us.

You know what I mean? Like, they wouldn't ask if they didn't need it. It's like, Hey guys, we're hurting. We need to work today. Please sign up to work. And guys do, they like that check or they're trying to buy a new car, or they just wanna work some overtime. Get away from the family for a little bit.

We've all done it. That's how it works. You know what I mean? I'd be lying if we said we didn't, one of the biggest things about this job. that if you don't have hobbies outside of it, you are going to drive yourself fucking crazy. And like with fire athlete, fire athlete wasn't a hobby outside of the job.

It was a hobby inside the job, if that makes sense. So everything that went into fire athlete was something that had to do with firefighting or fitness. And then I'd go back to my 24 hour shift and I'd do firefighting and fitness and then I'd go off for my two days and do more fire athlete shit. And then my other pages. So like traveling, I have, I live, I live in a place in, depending on how you want to help people look at this. I live in a very place of privilege. My wife and I are able to travel and that is something that we heavily enjoy doing. So we're going to do that. Um. I have the ability to go out and find niche hobbies like magic, the gathering or skateboarding, or what else have I gotten into in the last fucking years?

I can go, I can afford high rocks. You know what I mean? High rocks isn't cheap. Um, and the, it's kind of weird because the department and my work schedule allows me to do these things, right? I have 48 hours off and then I get back. I have to go back to work for an entire day away from my family and my friends, dogs, all of my hobbies to focus on work.

And then I'm off and I get to focus on things away from the job, which is what we should all be doing. should have hobbies away from this job. It is so vital to your mental health. it's sad because. A lot of the guys on the job know the guys that don't have hobbies outside of the job.

They're workhorses job. Once they leave, we all wonder what is that guy gonna do with the rest of his life when he retires? And I, dude, that fucking breaks my heart they've given their heart and soul and so much more to this, to like the, the fire service that when they leave, it's like, now what? Like, I'm not, I'm not at the station anymore. I don't have to show up every third day. I, I, I get to sit here with my pension and do what with it. I didn't, I didn't build anything outside of the, outside of the fire service now. And it's like, yeah, you can go traveling, can buy that $60,000 truck.

That's now a hundred thousand dollars because of inflation. You can buy a boat. You can get a dog, go move to Alaska. And you know, and those all sound like things, but they're not hobbies, you know what I mean? They're possessions and it, there's the, depending on who you like, it's not really depending on who you ask.

There's a very motto mentality in the fire service where like, know, it's, it's fishing, it's hunting, it's shooting, it's uh, going to the bars and two stepping and all that fun stuff, which is great. Those are hobbies, right? But like, when you deviate from that, that timeline, and you go, guys go, Hey, what do you do?

I'm like, anime, uh, magic, the gathering. Um, I like, conventions and sometimes I do fitness braces and they're like, what, what is this thing? What, who is this? How did you get in here? You know what I mean? It's so, it's like it throws people off, but. It, it people, you're either are like, ah, that's dumb. I don't wanna hear about that.

Or people are like, tell me more about that. Like, what is that? Like? I, I'm, I'm very, very curious to, to hear about this. Like, is this something that I could potentially be interested in? Like, is this a hobby that I want to inherit? is how firefighters get into hunting or fishing, right? They either started it with their dads or moms they got on the job and some guy was like, yo, do you wanna come hunting with us?

We're gonna go camping and we're gonna go shoot a buck. You know what I mean? We're gonna go fish for trout bath and like that. That is a hobby outside of the job. It's what we talk about in our interviews. It's what we should be living and it's what we should be doing so that we have time away from all of this.

TJ: What does it do for your head? Being able to step into a literal world that has nothing to do with fires and picking up memaw and fire engines and anything in the fire service.

Joff: That's a, that's an interesting question because yes, it kind of silences the noise for a time, right? But even then, you can have quality of life outside of the department with your hobbies and the things that you do and your lifestyle and your brain can still be fucked up, right? You can still be suffering from PTSD and those dark thoughts. So even if I'm having a great time with my buddies, hanging out, not playing magic gathering, if I have experienced things that fuck with my. My chemical basis and my, my PTSD and my mindset, those are gonna affect me. Right. to be able to have hobbies

TJ: Have.

Joff: my mind off of that is great. But I do, like, I think we've talked about in past podcasts, heavily, heavily emphasize on therapy and getting right in that aspect because no amount of magic, the gathering is going to take away the things that I have seen and heard. Right. That's great. It's fun. I have a good time. It's not fixing anything, it's just a distraction. and you know, you can go, like, people say, I, I've heard lots of people like I'm, I'm just trying to placate on everybody's hobbies, right? Like, mine is not better than somebody else's. Like, I'm not into hunting and fishing. That's great. Somebody who's into hunting and fishing goes out into the forest and, you know, they get that quiet, they get that peace for a while. But like those thoughts are still there. They, they don't go away. Yeah. It's, it's calm, it's nice. There's not a lot of noise, but it's, it's still there. Like it's not running. It's kind of just pushing away for a time. But dude, like, you gotta go, you gotta talk to, you gotta talk about it. You gotta do whatever it is that you find therapeutic and you have to let it help you. Whether that's a therapist or ketamine or going into the forest for five days.

TJ: You can't, can't counter spell the PTSD.

Joff: No, no, you cannot. If you could,

TJ: Boom. Nailed it.

Joff: that was, that was the best.

TJ: I'm, I'm ready to take on you and, and your fellow magic, the gathering nerds.

Joff: bring it, bring it.

TJ: I like the way this conversation has gone because we've touched on a lot of things that are not traditional fire service stuff, and you come from a department that is seen as a traditional, right. It's one of the big ones. It's one of the. Big city departments that people look at. I mean, you guys have a lot of important names that have come out of Phoenix.

So I love being able to explore that aspect of that more human aspect of a firefighter beyond the calls, beyond the rigs, beyond going to fires and doing cool fireman shit. So it's fitting that we end with an interesting question one that's gonna make you think, because every single time that I try to hit you with like the last question can really reuse it if the fire service disappear tomorrow, who is J besides a firefighter?

Joff: Jeff is just a guy that likes to find new things that is just consistently interested in life. Um, I, I tell every that, that's kind of the thing, man. Like if it went away tomorrow, I'd go find another blue collar job. You know what I mean? Something that would be able to help me maintain my lifestyle, hopefully, uh, work with my hands and not be at a desk because I have been at a desk before and like I tell every single person I worked at a desk for a year and a half of my life to help me get through EMT School and brother. will never do that again, ever. Um, that is not to knock anybody that does that because my wife is able to excel so heavily as many others are in that field. And a more fucking power to you. Dude, you can do that and not wanna blow your head off, sorry, I know it's dark, I, I give you kudos. I have to, I have to be doing something else.

I have to be standing and working and picking up mi muss. That's just, just who I am. That's how I, that's how my brain works. Um, but dude, I would just be somebody who to go find the next thing. it. The next shiny object. That's, oh, this is interesting. This looks like it's fun. I could do this. Cool.

TJ: Brother, thank you so much for coming back. I always love picking your brain and given your, your propensity for finding new shiny objects. I feel that every time we chat is an entirely different approach, that we take an entirely new world to explore. So I'm really, I'm really thankful for your A DHD. And in all seriousness, you are the excitement with which you talk about the stuff that you do because it's palpable.

And I'm hoping that the people who listen, realize and understand that it's okay to be quirky and nerdy and to like the things that you like because it's what makes you who you are, and that's what makes you an important part of your crew. And a key part of your family and your loved ones. So keep on doing your stuff and keep on rocking at it.

J thank you so much for being here.

Joff: I coming on this podcast and talking with you about this stuff. Uh, if I could touch on that really quick. Um,

TJ: course.

Joff: diversity is what makes the department great. Uh, every, everybody has a different background or a different lifestyle, and that's how we are able to take care of our patients and our customers as well as we do. And it's how we're able to take care of each other as well as we do. I have had people in my, my dms send me messages over the, uh, the, the the gathering page, uh, firefighters that, 'cause I've mentioned in on the page that, you know, this is what I do. I'm a first responder and I've had firefighters come to me and be like, you play, you play Magic The Gathering?

And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, I play Magic The Gathering. And like, I do not know how to break to my crew. I don't know how to talk about it. What do I do? Or like, they just kinda look at me like I'm crazy and I'm like, Hey man, my biggest piece of advice to anybody that plays it or wants to play it or try something new, it doesn't have to be matches the gathering. Fuck what everybody else thinks, dude. Like, if it's not hurting anyone, and you find enjoyment in it. Fuck everybody else. I do not give a shit. I, I literally, like if, if somebody wants to make you feel bad about something that you thoroughly enjoy, that person's not worth being around. And if you have to work with that person, I'm sorry, that one you gotta figure out.

But tell my firefighters brothers and sisters out there if they, if they get to hear this, like, fuck 'em. Like that's it. Uh, but again, dude, thank you so much for having me on the podcast.